Hellfire and a Loving God

American Faith Today ^ | January 16, 2016 | American Faith Today

[American Faith Today]

One of the great worries and one of the great questions that many who may be on the fence have when it comes to God is, "How can a loving God torture His children who simply don't believe in Him forever and ever in hell?" Well, hopefully today I'll be able to establish for you that He does not. I'm certainly not going to claim it will be a complete rebuttal or cover all possible ground. But I'll do my best and hopefully let truth win out and reign supreme and let scripture dictate for you whether I'm correct today, or whether I'm incorrect. It may not be the most popular or joyous subject, but it is one that is important, I think, to know the truth on, and I believe as well again one that because it truly does trouble so many, again, "How can God do such a thing", well, I believe He can't and He won't. That's the show live today at 4:30 Eastern time, and archived afterward

[Bellflower]

People cannot get into heaven with their filthy sins on them or heaven would become defiled. Then there wouldn’t be a heaven, only hell. God MUST separate people ladened with sins from His holy presence and send to the place that is appropriate for those who have rejected Him, a place without His goodness, because when they have rejected God they have rejected goodness and this place is hell.

[American Faith Today]

True enough

[metmom]

People cannot get into heaven with their filthy sins on them or heaven would become defiled.

I don't believe for a minute that anyone could defile heaven.

I think the holiness and purity is too holy and pure for the defiled to even have a chance for surviving.

They're not in heaven because they'd defile it. They're not in heaven because they could not tolerate being in the presence of a holy God in an unholy state.

God told Moses that no man could see His face and live. It would be the death of a being to be in heaven defiled.

[21twelve]

“It would be the death of a being to be in heaven defiled.”

I read some guy that had a bunch of scriptures to “back it up”, but his idea was that EVERYONE will be in the presence of God. But for those that have not been saved, God’s light will instead feel like the eternal fires of hell shining on the person’s sin.

I don’t know - either way - eternal punishment.

[MrEdd]

The Bible never says at any point that human beings were created at the beginning of the world.

The Bible does say that God knew our destinies even then, but God exists outside of time. Time is God's creation and it does not constrain him in any way. God's foreknowledge of us and plans for us do not equate to preexistence on our part. So no, not only were we not created as children of God at the dawn of creation, we weren't created at all then.

The book of Genesis says God rested on the seventh day. Resting isn't permanently stopping, and God's creative power was not all used up.

[metmom]

I read some guy that had a bunch of scriptures to "back it up", but his idea was that EVERYONE will be in the presence of God. But for those that have not been saved, God's light will instead feel like the eternal fires of hell shining on the person's sin.

I've wondered that myself but never really said much to anyone cause it sounded so weird.

But considering that God is omnipresent and there is no where that God is not, then there cannot be a place where you are out of His presence.

And our God IS a consuming fire. And since souls are forever, then I could easily see that being in the presence of a holy God in an unredeemed, unprotected state, would feel like burning.

[.45 Long Colt]

It appears to me that you misread 2 Peter 3:9, but it’s a common error. You can’t isolate one verse, you must read it in context. That passage is written to the elect of God, the “beloved.” It says that He is unwilling for any of YOU—the beloved—to perish. If He willed salvation for each and every man, each and every man would be saved.

This is a helpful explanation of the passage.
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2005/10/understanding_2_peter_39_by_pa.php

[21twelve]

“But considering that God is omnipresent...”

Yes - now that you mentioned it that was one of the things the guy pulled out of scripture. As with so much of this stuff I think we try to over explain or understand things. And the scriptures were written by inspired people when it comes to trying to describe the unseen - or seen only in visions or dreams.

Regardless - for the unsaved, it will be horrific.

[Mark17]

And our God IS a consuming fire. And since souls are forever, then I could easily see that being in the presence of a holy God in an unredeemed, unprotected state, would feel like burning.

A fish stands an ifinitely better chance of living in a tree, and surviving, than an unrighteousness man in Heaven. Unrighteousness people don't want to be in God's presence. They might never get their wish, as even in Hell, they behold His face, and it truly IS fire to them. Don't forget, God has a kind of fire we cannot begin to even remotely comprehend, and the pain in an eternal Hell, goes to infinity. How they will be able to edure that forever, is beyond me. Maybe they are wondering the same thing themselves. It's best not to find out.

I agree with you. People try to make God look ridiculous, to attempt to justify their rejection of Him. Has it ever worked? No way. Will it ever work? No way.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Eternally perish.

The punishment is eternal because the payment is never satisfied. Christ was the only perfect sacrifice because he was sinless.

This is merely a denial of clear biblical teaching as well as a judgment against God. “Hath God indeed said....”

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

http://www.gty.org/blog/B110506/is-hell-really-endless?Term=hell%20eternal%20punishment

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

http://www.gty.org/blog/B110511/the-severity-of-hell?Term=hell%20eternal

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Jonathan Edwards wrote of hell:

This doctrine is indeed awful and dreadful. It is dreadful to think of it, but yet tis what God the eternal God who made us and who has us soul and body in his hands has abundantly declared unto us, so that so sure as God is true there will absolutely be no end to the misery of hell. (”Concerning the Endless Punishment of those who die Impenitent”).

Spurgeon said from his pulpit:

Until we know the power of divine grace, we read in the Bible concerning eternal punishment, and we think it is too heavy and too hard, and we are apt to kick against it, and find out some heretic or other who teaches us another doctrine; but when the soul is really quickened by divine grace, and made to feel the weight of sin, it thinks the bottomless pit none too deep, and the punishment of hell none too severe for sin such as it has committed. (”Confession of Sin Illustrated by the Cases of Dr. Pritchard and Constance Kent”)

John MacArthur had this to say about preaching on the subject of hell:

This truth of eternal punishment to come on those who do not believe the gospel savingly is a painful message to preach. I can give you testimony to that. It is not only a painful message to preach, it is a painful message to hear. It is a painful message to process. It is a painful truth to apply, but it is biblical. (”A Testimony of One Surprised to Be in Hell,” Part 1: 42-212)

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

http://www.gty.org/blog/B110421/bells-inferno?Term=MacArthur%20on%20hell

[daniel1212]

Does God really burn His children who didn't believe or who even were legitimately evil for ever and ever?

No, they are not and were His children in the first place, so stop the beginning of your liberal revisionism. According to annihilationists:

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (Mark 9:43)

Rather than having a deterrent effect, it really means that you can live 70 years or so fulfilling all your lusts and just be annihilated in the end.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42)

But be of good cheer, for it will be over in a relative moment!

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

But ever and ever only means a moment.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46)

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:11)

But the punishment is not really punishment but they know nothing.

Which is just what the devil wants you to believe, and you are acting as his proxy servant and will be judged accordingly. See how well your damnable delusion lasts then!

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

From above link:

No one in all the Scriptures had more to say about hell than Jesus. No stern messenger of doom from the era of the Judges, no fiery Old Testament prophet, no writer of imprecatory psalms, and no impassioned apostle (including the Boanerges brothers)-not even all of them combined—entioned hell more frequently or described it in more terrifying terms than Jesus.

And the hell Jesus spoke of was not merely some earthly ordeal, some sour state of mind, or some temporary purgatorial prison. Jesus described hell as a “place of torment” in the afterlife (Luke 16:28)-a place of “unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43), “where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48). It is a “place [where] there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 25:30)-a place of “eternal punishment” (Matthew 25:46).

[daniel1212]

People cannot get into heaven with their filthy sins on them or heaven would become defiled. Then there wouldn’t be a heaven, only hell. God MUST separate people ladened with sins from His holy presence and send to the place that is appropriate for those who have rejected Him, a place without His goodness, because when they have rejected God they have rejected goodness and this place is hell.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42)

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24)

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:27-28)

[Note that the Lord never used real names in parables nor science fiction, the latter of which would be the case if annihilationism is true, as that precludes the dead from being conscious following death and carrying on a conversation with the elect.]

[Iscool]

Not to be tormented in fire forever and ever. Satan himself as it says in Ezekiel 28 is turned to ashes from within. There’s not a lot left to burn when all you have is ashes.

Yes there is...There's the soul which will feel the pain of the fire but never burn up...

[Iscool]

But is also seems to me that ‘outer darkness’ just means not in the city of God or not close to the glory of God. So while outer darkness sounds terrible - it’s actually pretty nice. Another name for it is paradise.

Mat_25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You might want to rethink that...

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Good job. Thank you.