What were his beliefs? He wanted to pick his wars. He refused to go. And what consequences did he really suffer? He is a wealthy man adored globally. The guys who paid severe consequences are here:
Posted on 06/04/2016 8:42:53 AM PDT by KeyLargo
,,,,, not the way I remember it .
I may be a bit of an exception here, but I do think there comes a point where a person is high enough profile to be exempt from compulsory service. Technically, I’m exempt too, simply because there’s no draft. I say that, in part, because Ali was in his prime and there is no way that he could stay conditioned being in the military...whereas his competitors with higher draft numbers skate through, along with people a few years younger or older.
Now, having said that, I would want the number who fit that category limited to maybe 1000 Americans, at most.
Disagree. He was the Heavyweight Champion of the world. No way he would have been put into combat. He would have gotten a cushy PR billet just like a lot of other celebrities got.
Instead, he chose to give it all away and go to prison in order to stand up for his principles. You can disagree with his decision, but it took guts to do what he did.
“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?
No, I am not going ten thousand miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would put my prestige in jeopardy and could cause me to lose millions of dollars which should accrue to me as the champion.
But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…
If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. But I either have to obey the laws of the land or the laws of Allah. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail. We’ve been in jail for four hundred years.”
So who was ultimately wrong here Kabar, the Democrat controlled government that sent 55,000 kids to their deaths in Vietnam with no chance of winning or a gold medal boxer who said I'm not going to participate in that fools end?
One could certainly apply his philosophy to today and our abject failure in both Iraq and Afghanistan......
I suspect that if there were a draft today and Ali refused to go, he would be applauded....................Funny how times have changed.
So, I guess you "understand" BLM and where they are coming from. So in one sense Ferguson was justified as are the huge numbers of black on white crime that is not reported in the MSM. I hear similar kinds of justifications for attacks on Trump supporters because of the "hate speech" of Trump. All you are doing is legitimizing violence for past or perceived grievances. Our cities are tinder boxes as Baltimore proved. We can expect more of it as the black underclass grows.
And you also appear to be ignorant of the fact that Ali, after winning a gold medal in the 1960 Olympics still incurred the racism in the south by being denied service in a restaurant because he was black and subsequently threw his medal into the Ohio river.
I remember it. Kerry was supposed to have thrown his medals away as well. Maybe we will find out what happened to his medal when his extended family fights over his possessions. Of course, he was given a replacement gold medal at the 1996 Olympics. No way to prove the story.
He took a stand against the Vietnam war, stayed home and was banned from boxing for 4 years . I get it and I accept it.........He's more than paid for his decision both during and after his boxing career with all the humanitarian causes he has supported. A hell of a lot more than you or I combined have done.
He avoided the draft during wartime and joined the racist Nation of Islam to supply the excuse. His conviction was overturned. Ali has been lionized ever since and he became a wealthy man. So he used his name to support humanitarian causes. Jimmy Carter has helped build houses for the poor, but it doesn't excuse his piss poor performance as President.
I am 73 years old, one less than Ali. I lived in the same world he did. I am not here to speak ill of the dead, but the facts as presented by Bruno are true. You can't discuss Ali without mentioning some of these things that have faded from public memory. His plaudits are coming from around the globe. He was an international celebrity who had no problem bashing his country. For that he is loved. And no doubt, being a Muslim will help in that regard as everyone will point to the fact that Trump and his ilk are enemies of people like Ali.
So don't shove your moral superiority in my face simply because your are a Vietnam vet, because I served too......... And that's all I'm going to say about that.
You seem to miss the point, perhaps intentionally. I am a contemporary of Ali. I am putting his life in some context that may be lost on you and those far younger. Ali was a polarizing figure. Simple as that.
Which prison was he incarcerated in?
How long was he locked up?
Just wondering.
Pat Tillman asked for no exemption. Neither did Elvis.
Ali didn’t go to prison. Guts or cowardice?
He made the choice to go. He wasn’t sent there, but he made the choice to go if necessary.
Didn’t see Trump going to Vietnam either. He managed to weasel out of it just like Bush, Clinton, and a thousand other of the privileged. Which one of them stood up and publicly took the medicine that came with refusing enlistment? None of them. They used connections to get out of it. Yet, Trump is the big man of FreeRepublic right now. Hypocritical? You tell me.
So I take it you’re not a Trump man? What happened when his country called upon him? Enlighten me.
The comment was made in the Bruno article that his criticism of Ali had nothing to do with race. Bruno said he had problems with Cheney and others who got deferments and didn't serve.
So who was ultimately wrong here Kabar, the Democrat controlled government that sent 55,000 kids to their deaths in Vietnam with no chance of winning or a gold medal boxer who said I'm not going to participate in that fools end?
It is not about right or wrong. We had a draft at the time. Able citizens who were drafted were expected to serve. You don't get to choose which wars you will participate in and those you won't. It was the same system used in Korea and WWII. Ali made his choice and it has consequences. We can't have a draft where the individual decides which wars are just and which ones are not.
We didn't lose the war militarily. We were actually winning, just like we were in Iraq when our political leaders lost the peace. We entered Iraq under a Rep controlled WH and Congress.
One could certainly apply his philosophy to today and our abject failure in both Iraq and Afghanistan......
LOL. His philosophy? What is that? We don't go after AQ and OBL after they take down the WTC, attack the Pentagon, bomb the USS Cole, attack two of our embassies in East Africa, etc. So how would you apply his philosophy?
I suspect that if there were a draft today and Ali refused to go, he would be applauded....................Funny how times have changed.
No doubt. The country has sunk to a new low. It is all about me and not the country. JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Patriotism is on the wane. We have a voluntary military today. Reinstituting the draft would be met with howls of resistance. And would we would we draft illegal aliens? Technically, they should be registering now for the draft.
He had a phalanx of lawyers seeing to it that he did not go to jail, He was rich enough to afford it. He chose to evade the draft and joined the racist Nation of Islam to provide an excuse.
Didn’t see Trump going to Vietnam either. He managed to weasel out of it just like Bush, Clinton, and a thousand other of the privileged.
And they should be castigated for it as well. Bush did join the service and flew jet fighters.
Yet, Trump is the big man of FreeRepublic right now. Hypocritical? You tell me.
I doubt he will be held account for it any more than Clinton was. And our community organizer ran against POW who spent five years in prison. Service in the military is becoming rarer and rarer in our government whether it is Congress or the WH. Not a good thing IMO.
yeah, and i’m not seeing anyone here calling Trump a draft dodger. He hid behind deferments. Ali at least had the guts to state his beliefs and deal with the consequences. And the consequences were severe.
Which one is the coward again?
And Ali wasn’t rich in the mid 60’s. Hardly. in fact, Joe Frazier had to lend him money.
What were his beliefs? He wanted to pick his wars. He refused to go. And what consequences did he really suffer? He is a wealthy man adored globally. The guys who paid severe consequences are here:
Stripped of his heavyweight title and banned from his profession for 3 years during his prime. Sounds like a consequence to me.
Now tell me... what consequence did Donald Trump (and Bill Clinton, and Dick Cheney, and on and on and on) pay for THEIR draft dodging? Still haven’t seen you answer that one.
Let me guess..... Trump fan? Going to dodge? Or answer?
Not fatal.
Now tell me... what consequence did Donald Trump (and Bill Clinton, and Dick Cheney, and on and on and on) pay for THEIR draft dodging? Still haven’t seen you answer that one.
This isn't about them. It is about Ali. They did not pay any real consequences either nor did the millions of others who used the system to get deferments or had lottery numbers that were so high that they were not drafted. I am not defending them. I am just agreeing with Bruno that Ali was a draft dodger.
Let me guess..... Trump fan? Going to dodge? Or answer?
I am a Trump fan who will not defend Trump's deferments. I will still vote for him over Hillary who claimed that she tried to volunteer for the USMC and was turned down.
All that noise, all that unnecessary pain, God's will always wins in the end ;-)
Actually, what you are is a hypocrite. You are more than willing to scream “Draft Dodger” when it comes to Ali, but totally silent when it comes to Trump. If fact, you’re voting for him for President.
When.... they both did the exact same thing.
No, I am being honest. You think that by linking Ali to Trump, it somehow mitigates what Ali did. Ali claimed an exemption based on his religion, i.e., his association with the racist Nation of Islam. IMO, it was just a scam. He refused to go. Ali broke the law and Trump did not is the difference.
In the course of the Vietnam War, about 15.4 million men received deferments, were exempted or disqualified. In contrast to those millions, the government charged 210,000 people with draft violations, ranging from burning their draft cards to refusing to serve to fleeing the country.
The 2-S classifications are Trump’s student deferments. The first two covered his time at Fordham University in the Bronx, and the second two allowed him to stay in school when he transferred to study business at the University of Pennsylvania.
When he graduated in 1968, Trump’s classification shifted to 1-A, or "available for service."
Had that stood, Trump would have been drafted.
But Trump had a physical exam in September 1968. He had taken one less than two years earlier that did not disqualify him for service as we can tell from his 1-A classification in July 1968. However, his second physical was followed in October with a new classification, 1-Y. That designation put him near the bottom of any call-up list. It meant he would only be drafted if there were a national emergency.
Until recently, the only detail on record about that shift was it was medically related. After his comments about McCain, Trump said it had to do with bone spurs in his heels. Trump reportedly was active in college sports, playing baseball, tennis and squash.
"If I would have gotten a low number, I would have been drafted. I would have proudly served," he said. "But I got a number, I think it was 356. That’s right at the very end. And they didn't get -- I don’t believe -- past even 300, so I was -- I was not chosen because of the fact that I had a very high lottery number."
Late in 1969, the nation changed the selective service law to pick people through a random selection of birth dates. The very first drawing was on Dec. 1, 1969.
As TheSmokingGun.com website pointed out, the draft lottery came two months after Trump received his 1-Y classification. Essentially, even if Trump’s birthday, June 14, had been pulled first, he would not have been called to serve.
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