Posted on 12/27/2019 6:03:35 AM PST by w1n1
Some concealed carrier that are into “comfort carry” will usually carry a pistol with a single stack vs a dual stack (more capacity).
Its not about just having lots of ammo, but the situation requires that you may need it. Plus the idea of using a gun for self defense is not to kill your attacker, but to make them stop attacking.
Now we are back to the original question, how many rounds do you need to stop an attacker? According to Massad Ayoob he states: switch from 5-6 round revolvers to 15-18 or 20 round semi automatics; "5-6 rounds was usually enough… but usually isn't always." Massad was referring to law enforcement employment but falls into personal defense as well.
So the consensus is that the more rounds you have the better to prepare for most gunfight situations. When you look into the hits ratios of our law enforcements that were involved in shootouts, its not good. (12% to 19%, unless someone knows of a more updated version from the FBI & NYPD) Yes, while under stress these LEO's will shoot more than in a training scenario. With that in mind, most lawfully concealed carrier will probably be expending lots of rounds in a self defense situation.
Why carry more rounds when you can use a bigger slug -
Chances are most people if shot will probably stop attacking you. But, in this day and age with die hard assailants we’re going to assume they’re still coming. According to a chart from Buckeye Firearms Handgun stopping power, it states 2.45 rounds with a 9mm pistol on average to end the threat. "To be clear, that's 2.45 Hits – not rounds fired."
So: If it takes (on average) 5.55 shots to make a hit, And if it takes (on average) 2.45 hits to incapacitate an attacker, Then it takes 5.55 x 2.45 = 13.6 rounds fired (on average) to incapacitate an attacker. That’s for one attacker.
So hypothetically, if there are multiples bad guys, you need to double or triple those averages for a single shooter. Read the rest of concealed carry rounds.
“Massad was referring to law enforcement employment but falls into personal defense as well.”
Nonsense.
CC holders are not aggressively seeking out armed criminals with the intent of, at least, sending them to prison.
And 95% of all gunfights are within 8 feet.
Except for cops who regularly are engaged at 20+ feet.
I call Edmond “the land of the philistines”.
“If I haven’t gotten myself out of trouble in 5 to 8 rounds I don’t suspect 8 more or 16 more is going to make a difference.”
George Adamson, whose wife became famous when she wrote Born Free, had to hunt man-eating lions a number of times. He used a double barrel rifle. He was asked how he did it. IIRC, his reply was, “Wait until 10 yards. Don’t miss.”
I suspect a lot of cops have shot a lot of rounds because they could instead of because they needed them. This is a video of a highly trained SWAT team putting 71 rounds out, putting bullets into 5 houses...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUnEWYdPnI
The family was eventually paid $3 million, IIRC.
No, it’s ruger factory mag with a plus 1 extension. It works perfectly and gives me a little more of a grip.
Yup, plan A is avoidance, plan B is de-escalation, plan C is go to guns
All were totally unanticipated, unexpected and unprovoked incidents that completely came out of the blue. I was not the aggressor in any and most were in “ good”, if not upscale, areas.
In most I was taken completely by surprise. Quickest from start to finish was perhaps 15 seconds and most were were probably less than 120 seconds. Cant say for sure because I was not keeping count, but can say for sure they were all very long seconds.
Had a firearm available in about half, which gives an unusual perspective
In no case were shots fired thankfully.
In a couple of cases was unarmed against multiple people with multiple firearms. If I had been armed there would have been multiple bodies on the ground and mine would probably would have been one if them. So being unarmed worked out best.
In another, I was armed but did not pull weapon. In that case, knowing I had the option was critical to giving confidence to resolving situation with no escalation.
In others, being armed almost certainly saved my life plus lives of family and bystanders.
Kind of an agnostic on mag capacity because in what was a very violent and totally unprovoked road rage confrontation at a stop light, I successfully defended myself with a military style MBR that was not only unloaded, there was not even a mag in the well. Didn’t even have ammo in vehicle and would not have even had time to insert a loaded mag if one had been available
Sometimes just having a firearm available is more than enough
No one has editors anymore. You must be a fascist.
If you know you are going into a dangerous situation carry a high capacity piece. However for daily ccw you have a trade off, what you can carry, feel comfortable carrying and what you think is adequate rounds and caliber wise. In my truck I carry a Ruger GP 100 with 125?grain JHP’s in a steering wheel holster and a Commander 1911 in .45 245 grain JHP’s in my center consol. If I step out and about a Kel-Tec P32 with hard chrome slide, condition 1 with FMJ’s. Under my back truck seat I have a soft case covered Norinco SKS in stock condition, 10 rds in the magazine and none in the pipe and 5 stripper clips in the case. I feel more than adequately armed. Carry what you feel comfortable with and practice, practice, practice!
Who cares about the opinions on this ripoff blog? He’s good for a laugh though. I wonder what country he’s from and where he stole this article from.
five rules of a gun fight:
1) gun beats no gun
2) a hit beats a miss
3) fast bests slow
4) big holes beat small holes
5) two hits beat one hit
The answer to how many rounds to carry is a function of #2 accuracy and #5 times you hit. The best answer is zero, the minimum is one. The maximum is individual preference.
Plenty of potential arguments here.
To start with, there is no limit to the amount of ammo you need in a “gunfight”, that is, staying in place and fighting against another gunman.
However, this may not be optimal for most self defense situations, where you just want to stop the immediate threat and then evacuate.
Much of these two situations are determined not by you, but by the threat. That is, are they a robber, or a mass killer.
A robber quickly IDs you as a threat to him, so he will likely retreat. The mass shooter type is much less likely to have identified you as a threat, unless you are brandishing. So the best bet against the latter is to find a place with both cover and concealment, and wait for the killer to pass by.
Criminals willing to ensure no witnesses to their crimes are a minority as are criminals willing to engage in a protracted gunbattle despite having avenues of escape.
Most criminals want to be able to get through today secretly in order to continue plying their trade tomorrow in secrecy.
Any modern handgun presents most criminals with a chance that they might be injured and thereby have to seek medical attention and come up with plausible explanations for the inevitable questioning they will receive.
When faced with any self defense gun, a certain percentage of criminals will instinctively seek to de-escalate and escape the situation without shots being fired. All predators two and four legged weight the odds of injury.
For the remainder (assuming urban setting), once the first shot has been fired, the criminal's secrecy is blown. Most will still seek an escape route. You need enough ammunition that they will not believe moving towards your position is a good avenue of escape. Again, they primarily want to be able get away unharmed, blend back into their community and be able to resume their trade tomorrow.
There have actually been quite a few threads on FR about that.
I’m aiming for the eye band right off, so........
It’s a “brick wall” effect:
You run out, you die.
I would say two mags, not necessarily for the extra rounds, but also in case there is a “mag glitch”. For my revolvers, two speed-loaders.
If I am in a situation where I go through a magazine full of ammo, I am not in a typical self defense situation, but either trapped by determined killers or in a serious fire fight with way too many gang members. And yes I do practice at the range regularly, so a few would be dead and others wounded by the second magazine is inserted.
The point of the second magazine it to let the other folks know that I have more ammo, they can guess how many more magazines I might have on me, but they know I have more. It also gives me enough ammo for some covering fire to get out of Dodge.
Hmmm. Obviously missed them. I’ve never read a media story of that type and, frankly, there are good reasons to not go public about such a thing.
Winter is Glock 19 or Glock 26, and summer is Glock 43 or Ruger LCR. Fall and Spring is wholly dependent on what the weather is on any particular day.
If you are writing about incidents where the mere presence of a defensive weapon was sufficient to diffuse a situation, there have been quite a few articles here on FR over the years.
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