Harris, Haley, and Ramaswamy Cannot Be President

The Post Email ^ | August 29, 2023 | Don Frederick

[DiogenesLamp]

Your nonsense has been answered already. You do not know what you are talking about.

Well that was a short response.

Perhaps you are learning something of value here? :)

I've made my arguments, I think you can understand them, you just don't want to do so.

I have always wondered why you were so vehement on this issue, and today I might have gotten a clue. I noticed you said you were a retired Veteran in another thread, and this prompted me to think there is a distinct possibility you see this topic as personal because you may have very well been born abroad.

It's also possible you were born here to a foreign father, but a lot of military people follow in their father's footsteps, and military fathers are often deployed overseas.

This is one reason I sought to reassure you by quoting Vattel's position on the matter of children born to fathers in the service of his nation, but perhaps my guesswork is all wrong.

In any case, I would assume you were in JAG or some such.

Thank you for your service. My Grandfather was Army, My Father was Army, my brother was Army, my Uncles were Army, my Nephew was Navy and then Marines.

[woodpusher]

Your nonsense has been answered already. You do not know what you are talking about.

Well that was a short response.

Perhaps you are learning something of value here? :)

I've made my arguments, I think you can understand them, you just don't want to do so.

I have always wondered why you were so vehement on this issue, and today I might have gotten a clue. I noticed you said you were a retired Veteran in another thread, and this prompted me to think there is a distinct possibility you see this topic as personal because you may have very well been born abroad.

Read it again like a bedtime story. This is how I explained it to you on July 24, 2023.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4169134/posts?page=130#130

To: DiogenesLamp

There is nothing in 14A, or U.S. citizenship law, about birth on a military base.

Well there is in Vattel's "law of nations" in the section that covers children born of people in service to their nation in foreign lands.

There is also a roll of toilet paper. If lacking toilet paper, tear out the pages of Vattel's book and cut them into squares, and they will serve the same purpose.

Citizenship of people born within the territory and jurisdiction of the United States is controlled by the 14th Amendment. Citizenship of people born outside the territory or jurisdiction of the United States is controlled by Federal law in effect at the time of birth.

No foreign law is relevant.

From the State Department Foreign Affairs Manual:

https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030101.html

8 FAM 301

U.S. Citizenship

8 FAM 301.1

Acquisition by Birth in the United States

(CT:CITZ-50; 01-21-2021) (Office of Origin: CA/PPT/S/A)

8 FAM 301.1-1 Introduction

(CT:CITZ-50; 01-21-2021)

a. U.S. citizenship may be acquired either at birth or through naturalization subsequent to birth. U.S. laws governing the acquisition of citizenship at birth embody two legal principles:

(1) Jus soli (the law of the soil) - a rule of common law under which the place of a person’s birth determines citizenship. In addition to common law, this principle is embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the various U.S. citizenship and nationality statutes; and

(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline) - a concept of Roman or civil law under which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As U.S. laws have changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also changed.

[...]

c. Naturalization – Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship Subsequent to Birth: Naturalization is “the conferring of nationality of a State upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever” (INA 101(a)(23) (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(23)) or conferring of citizenship upon a person (see INA 310, 8 U.S.C. 1421 and INA 311, 8 U.S.C. 1422). Naturalization can be granted automatically or pursuant to an application. (See 7 FAM 1140.)

d. “Subject to the Jurisdiction of the United States”: All children born in and subject, at the time of birth, to the jurisdiction of the United States acquire U.S. citizenship at birth even if their parents were in the United States illegally at the time of birth:

(1) The U.S. Supreme Court examined at length the theories and legal precedents on which the U.S. citizenship laws are based in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898). In particular, the Court discussed the types of persons who are subject to U.S. jurisdiction. The Court affirmed that a child born in the United States to Chinese parents acquired U.S. citizenship even though the parents were, at the time, racially ineligible for naturalization;

(2) The Court also concluded that: “The 14th Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The Amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States, of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States.” Pursuant to this ruling:

(a) Acquisition of U.S. citizenship generally is not affected by the fact that the parents may be in the United States temporarily or illegally; and that; and

(b) A child born in an immigration detention center physically located in the United States is considered to have been born in the United States and be subject to its jurisdiction. This is so even if the child’s parents have not been legally admitted to the United States and, for immigration purposes, may be viewed as not being in the United States.

8 FAM 301.1-3 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United States"

(CT:CITZ-1; 06-27-2018)

[...]

c. Birth on U.S. military base outside of the United States or birth on U.S. embassy or consulate premises abroad:

(1) Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities abroad are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not born in the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth;

(2) The status of diplomatic and consular premises arises from the rules of law relating to immunity from the prescriptive and enforcement jurisdiction of the receiving State; the premises are not part of the territory of the United States of America. (See Restatement (Third) of Foreign Relations Law, Vol. 1, Sec. 466, Comment a and c (1987). See also, Persinger v. Iran, 729 F.2d 835 (D.C. Cir. 1984).

[...]

130 posted on 07/24/2023 3:21:38 PM PDT by woodpusher

- - - - - - - - -

It's also possible you were born here to a foreign father, but a lot of military people follow in their father's footsteps, and military fathers are often deployed overseas.

This is one reason I sought to reassure you by quoting Vattel's position on the matter of children born to fathers in the service of his nation, but perhaps my guesswork is all wrong.

I am the natural born child of two natural born American citizens.

As previously explained and quoted from legal authority, birth abroad on a military base has no special significance. It is like being born abroad off base. Naturalization cannot occur at birth, but only at some time subsequent to birth. Naturalization may only occur in the United States, to an alien lawfully present in the United States.