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To: srmanuel
If you are born here, regardless of where your parents were born you are a natural born citizen of the USA and therefore eligible to be POTUS.

The source article makes a convincing argument against that premise. Consider the following: Two diplomats from Russia are serving in the Russian Embassy in DC. They "bump their Russkie uglies" and nine months later head over to the hospital in DC to give birth to 8lb 2oz baby Boris. Is Boris a natural born citizen and therefore able to run for President when he's 35? Or is he not?

Like I said, earlier, how many of the first few Presidents were not only born here but both their parents were born here. I don’t really know but I doubt very many.

This is a moot point. As the Constitution specifically exempts people who were "citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution" as was explained in the article. Didn't matter where you were born prior to the Constitution. As long as you were a citizen when it was adopted, you were good.

I remember this coming up with John McCain, he wasn’t born in the USA, he was born in Panama, but both his parents were born here, therefore he could be POTUS.

Agreed. And because both of McCain's parents were citizens, McCain would be eligible. This would be the opposite of the Russian theoretical above. Two Americans do the deed in another country, their kid is a citizen even if born in that country.


99 posted on 08/30/2023 11:32:21 AM PDT by mmichaels1970
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To: mmichaels1970

Baby Boris might have other issues. If he had not lived in thr US at least 14 years, he would not be eligible for that reason.
.
And do we have laws,regarding dual citizenship, or would His being born in the US be overridden by his being a Russian citizen?


107 posted on 08/30/2023 11:40:39 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: mmichaels1970

The Russian embassy like American Embassies in other countries is sovereign territory of Russia or the USA., so technically the child is not born in the USA.

Like I said, this is something that makes conservatives look like idiots arguing over a nonissue.


119 posted on 08/30/2023 11:55:00 AM PDT by srmanuel
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To: mmichaels1970

The Russian embassy like American Embassies in other countries is sovereign territory of Russia or the USA., so technically the child is not born in the USA.

Like I said, this is something that makes conservatives look like idiots arguing over a nonissue.


120 posted on 08/30/2023 11:55:00 AM PDT by srmanuel
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To: mmichaels1970; srmanuel
The source article makes a convincing argument against that premise. Consider the following: Two diplomats from Russia are serving in the Russian Embassy in DC. They "bump their Russkie uglies" and nine months later head over to the hospital in DC to give birth to 8lb 2oz baby Boris. Is Boris a natural born citizen and therefore able to run for President when he's 35? Or is he not?

Insufficient information given. Only accredited diplomats enjoy diplomatic immunity. If the diplomats were accredited, then the child is Russian at birth. If the diplomats were unaccredited, there is no diplomatic immunity, and the child is a natural born United States citizen.

I remember this coming up with John McCain, he wasn’t born in the USA, he was born in Panama, but both his parents were born here, therefore he could be POTUS.

Agreed. And because both of McCain's parents were citizens, McCain would be eligible. This would be the opposite of the Russian theoretical above. Two Americans do the deed in another country, their kid is a citizen even if born in that country.

Birth outside the United States is controlled by whatever Federal law was applicable at the time of birth. The McCain case was a mess.

Act of May 24, 1934; 48 Stat. 797, "To amend; the law relative to citizenship and naturalization, and for other purposes, starts out amending Section 1993 of the citizenship law.

"Sec. 1993. Any child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States...."

Congress had good intent but lousy logic.

Hay-Bunau Treaty, 1903

ARTICLE III

The Republic of Panama grants to the United States all the rights, power and authority within the zone mentioned and described in Article II of this agreement and within the limits of all auxiliary lands and waters mentioned and described in said Article II which the United States would possess and exercise if it were the sovereign of the territory within which said lands and waters are located to the entire exclusion of the exercise by the Republic of Panama of any such sovereign rights, power or authority.

"would possess … if it were the sovereign" establishes that the U.S. was not the sovereign, but exercised jurisdiction as if it were the sovereign.

The 14th Amendment applied to all those born within the territory and jurisdiction of the United States. McCain was not born within the territory of the United States.

The Federal statute applied to all born outside the territory and jurisdiction of the U.S. McCain was born outside the territory but within the jurisdiction of the United States. While intending to cover all not covered by the 14th Amendment, Congress needed the word or where they used and.

Because congress screwed up, McCain appeared to fall under neither 14A nor the Federal statute.

A fix to the congressional screwup came with another Federal statute.

Act of August 4, 1937, 50 Stat. 558, "Relating to the citizenship of certain classes of persons born in the Canal Zone or the Republic of Panama.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House o f Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

SEC. 2. Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

Approved, August 4, 1937.

So, McCain, born in 1936, was retroactively declared a citizen at birth. Canal Zone records contain no entry of McCain's birth. There are still more technicalities, but this covers birth in the Canal Zone. Birth on a military base is irrelevent to citizenship status at birth.

Federal law for overseas births may require registration of the birth with an embassy and may require a certain period of residency in the United States by a certain age. Such conditions have been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court as constitutional.

195 posted on 08/30/2023 1:06:41 PM PDT by woodpusher
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