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Posted on 04/06/2004 6:53:09 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Wneighbor
I'm still here... was typing.
Bailing out pretty soon, though... I would suppose.
7,701
posted on
05/04/2004 8:48:17 PM PDT
by
Ramius
(Objects in post may be larger than they appear.)
To: Bear_in_RoseBear; JenB
Hmmm. . .I understand what you're saying about the basic substance-vs.-style distinction, but I'm not sure I'm convinced Batman's bat aspect is unessential to his character--he is, after all, "Bat"-man :) The bat is an archetype in itself which has associations with the night, the Moon, darkness, death, the spirit world, etc. Which I guess, however, also partly relates to the vengeance element you mention, in that for Batman the symbol of the bat relates to the terror he strikes into the heart of criminals: beyond being a hero, he's also the personification of justice come for the evil-doer.
I definitely agree Batman and Punisher are variations on a theme, though. And where Batman is associated with the bat, the Punisher wears a skull against a black background, invoking other symbols associated with death and night.
To broaden the discussion, as I'm thinking about this, I'm also wondering about how to categorize Spider-Man. Spider-Man also has the revenge/guilt motive, yet I'd say he's a different category than those two. I guess part of it would be the source of his powers as you bring up: although Peter Parker does have some "self-made" scientific know-how, his basic powers are from other sources. Another part would be that Spider-Man also has a "reluctant hero" side to him which is absent in Batman and Punisher: he's a nerd turned superhero, whereas Batman and Punisher are kind of macho ubermenches even in their civilian identities.
Incidentally, one reason I'm interested in this topic is because I've been helping write a book on horror movies and one thing that comes up a lot is how archetypes play into horror movies, so thinking/talking about it in relation to other genres like superhero literature is also helpful to me. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
To: Ramius
I figured that out... that you were typing. :-)
you aided my precious sneak of course :-)
Too bad you didn't need a little rescue this evening! I was feeling very entertaining! :-D
oh, i forgot, you didn't call it entertaining.... uh... didn't you say it was encouragable? :-D
7,703
posted on
05/04/2004 8:50:58 PM PDT
by
Wneighbor
(Texas. Land of opportunity! No restrictor plates here!)
To: Wneighbor
I'm here... learnin' me some HTML and watching Letterman...
To: Bear_in_RoseBear
You're learnin' HTML and watchin' Letterman and it's your anniversary? Hmmm... is Rose participating? :-)
7,705
posted on
05/04/2004 8:52:12 PM PDT
by
Wneighbor
(Texas. Land of opportunity! No restrictor plates here!)
To: Wneighbor
Bailing out about now...
it's been fun. :-)
7,706
posted on
05/04/2004 9:00:10 PM PDT
by
Ramius
(Objects in post may be larger than they appear.)
To: Ramius
Night Sweetheart! :-) (((Ramius)))
7,707
posted on
05/04/2004 9:06:10 PM PDT
by
Wneighbor
(Texas. Land of opportunity! No restrictor plates here!)
To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Mmmmmm... HTML!
Been workin' on PHP and MySQL lately myself. Fun stuff!
7,708
posted on
05/04/2004 9:08:31 PM PDT
by
ecurbh
(Kerry actually did throw his medals away, before he didn't throw them away.)
To: Bear_in_RoseBear; Rose in RoseBear
Oh yeah, and Happy Anniversary!
7,709
posted on
05/04/2004 9:09:00 PM PDT
by
ecurbh
(Kerry actually did throw his medals away, before he didn't throw them away.)
To: All
Well, I'm logging off here--g'night all!
To: Fedora; JenB
I'm not sure I'm convinced Batman's bat aspect is unessential to his characterI agree with you on that. To clarify, when I used the word "archetype" I was talking only about the superhero aspect of the character; that is, the superhero's abilities and motive. I think those two character aspects are what set superhero fiction apart from other genres of fiction. If you look at the overall character, "archetype" takes on a different aspect I think; in the overall sense, Batman would fall into the "creature of the night" archetype.
I'm also wondering about how to categorize Spider-Man.
For powers, I'd say he's an example of the "Accidental Hero": someone who gets his powers from an accident of some kind. Daredevil, The Flash, and The Hulk are other examples of this.
For motive, it's harder to say; perhaps a mixture of guilt and Purity of Heart. There are other "guilty" superheroes out there, who became heroes to atone for past misdeeds; Plastic Man is one. The "Pure of Heart" superheroes are numerous; Superman and Captain America are the two prime examples.
For overall character, Spider-Man is a Wish-Fulfillment character: the wimpy kid with secret superpowers. He's not really the first such superhero... Captain Marvel (the Shazam! one) falls into that category too.
All of the above is just my opinion, of course! :)
To: ecurbh
I'm not that advanced yet... studying up on cascading style sheets. I first learned HTML back when it was 3.0, and I haven't updated my skills since then!
Oh, and thanks! ;)
To: Wneighbor
Rose has been sleeping in her chair for the past couple of hours. I need to wake her up so she can go to bed...
To: Bear_in_RoseBear; Rose in RoseBear
Happy Anniversary Bear and Rose!Good night everyone!
7,714
posted on
05/04/2004 9:25:35 PM PDT
by
HairOfTheDog
(I am HairOfTheDog and I approved this message.)
To: HairOfTheDog; Fedora; Wneighbor; All
Thanks Hair!
Good night all!
To: Bear_in_RoseBear; Corin Stormhands; RosieCotton; JenB; All
Good morning!
I'm back home! There is a change in the test schedule so we got to come home early- I'm happy! Will get caught up later...
7,716
posted on
05/05/2004 4:20:58 AM PDT
by
Lil'freeper
(The enemy's gate is down!)
To: Lil'freeper; Corin Stormhands; JenB; Overtaxed; HairOfTheDog; g'nad; ksen; Wneighbor
Good morning! Today is Margaret's 18th birthday. Sigh...they grow up so fast! I remember very clearly the day she was born (especially as she was my first sister - and I had to wait a long time for that!), and now...here she is all growed up!
*snif*
7,717
posted on
05/05/2004 5:25:38 AM PDT
by
RosieCotton
(Anything worth doing is worth doing badly. - G. K. Chesterton)
To: RosieCotton
Tell her happy birthday from us!
Getting together with her tonight for dinner or something?
Good morning everyone!
7,718
posted on
05/05/2004 6:23:40 AM PDT
by
HairOfTheDog
(I am HairOfTheDog and I approved this message.)
To: HairOfTheDog; RosieCotton; Lil'freeper
Mornin'.
Happy Birthday Margaret! Today is Nana's birthday too.
7,719
posted on
05/05/2004 6:28:28 AM PDT
by
Corin Stormhands
(John Kerry: "I am not going to stand for this, nor will I take this sitting down...")
To: Corin Stormhands
John Rhys Davies, too.
And it was Karl Marx's...but I think we'll just forget that.
7,720
posted on
05/05/2004 6:30:10 AM PDT
by
RosieCotton
(Anything worth doing is worth doing badly. - G. K. Chesterton)
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