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Benedict XVI-New Pope Hits Out at Harry Potter Books
Contact Music News ^ | 4/24/05

Posted on 04/26/2005 7:55:47 AM PDT by gopwinsin04

NEW POPE HITS OUT AT HARRY POTTER BOOKS

The new pope Benedict XVI has blasted JK Rowlings Harry Potter books for 'undermining the soul of Chirstianity.'

His predecessor, John Paul II, had praised the mutilmillionairness for her Christian lifestyle in the past.

The former Cardinal Joeseph Ratizinger is grateful to 'Good or Bad' author Gabrielle Kuby for revealing the hidden agendas behind the popular childrens books.

He said, 'it is good that you explain the facts of Harry Potter, because this is subtle seduction, which is deeply unnoticed and has direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it can really grow porperly.'

(Excerpt) Read more at contactmusic.com ...


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KEYWORDS: gabrielekuby; greatpope; harrypotter; kuby; ratzinger
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To: SuziQ

I'll give it a rest the minute the Church actually starts treating priests that have these kind of allegations against them as potential criminals instead of PR problems. So far there's been no indication that the next round will be handled any differently than the last round.

No the most reprehensible thing he did was even getting shrinks involved in the first place. These people were being accused of one of the single most heinous crimes a person can commit, when information comes to you that someone you have authority over might be a pedophile you don't go to shrinks to find out if they're "healed" you let the cops decide if the allegations are true, if they are they go to jail and you defrock them.

Every institution that has faced this problem and handled it the way the Catholic Church did became enablers or pedophiles and should hang their heads in shame. I'm not denying that the Church isn't alone in this, but they get an extra level of culpability being an institution of moral teaching.

In my opinion there never should have been an opportunity to find out they had gone back to their old ways. Hopefully Benedict XVI will continue down that path and the Church will actually begin to deal with this type of problem in a way that is deserving of the moral authority the Church claims.


161 posted on 04/26/2005 4:28:31 PM PDT by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: Rippin

The coolest drinking game is to read a Harry Potter book and take a shot every time you read the word "scarlet".


162 posted on 04/26/2005 4:35:52 PM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AD fan club: "lol, Good one AD."--gopwinsin04; "Hey, AmishDude, you are right!"-FairOpinion)
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To: Miykayl
The previous post makes an attempt to explain away the “magic” as a natural ability afforded Gandalf by his non-human race.

Is not the same thing basically true in the world of Harry Potter? To be sure, since magic users and humans interbreed, the magic users can't quite be termed another "race", but I would not consider that a major distinction.

The key point is that unless a reader has magic users as parents, the reader can't expect any of the spells or other such goodies in the books to work.

163 posted on 04/26/2005 4:44:04 PM PDT by supercat ("Though her life has been sold for corrupt men's gold, she refuses to give up the ghost.")
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To: Dajjal
I need to proof read more and use sarcasm tags...

Hmmmm...read Harry Potter and risk eternal damnation... uhm... Can I think about this?

164 posted on 04/26/2005 5:08:40 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: discostu
Then I understood, and came back to my faith, and now fight against your kind because I know personally just how damaging you are to people's faith, everything you accuse D&D and fantasy metal and HP of being is what you are, you send people away from the faith, you send people to investigate the occult in search of some alternate way that doesn't have people that condemn others for fun.

I can see it's pointless to debate this point with you. You are clearly a victim of evil Christians who scorned you in your youth. A societal outcast, if you will. You have managed to channel your rage at this unjust intolerance into a heroic mission--to defend fandom against all those evil Fundies and Catholics who would dare critize it. In the dark of night, you don your spandex suit with the giant "T" embroidered on it--you are Tolerance Man.

Sorry bud. As I said, I was in your shoes once. But I escaped from the pathetic escapism and conformist vapidity that rules the world of fandom. It's amusing now to remember how seriously I took it all at the time.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child."

Someday, perhaps you will too.
165 posted on 04/26/2005 5:52:53 PM PDT by Antoninus (Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini, Hosanna in excelsis!)
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To: discostu
when information comes to you that someone you have authority over might be a pedophile you don't go to shrinks to find out if they're "healed" you let the cops decide if the allegations are true, if they are they go to jail and you defrock them.

One of the big problems in Boston was that the two biggest offenders were also well known in Democrat circles and had powerful friends. In some of the cases, the cops didn't pursue the cases, in others the parents didn't pursue because they didn't want to drag their children through it. The Church couldn't bring a case if the victim didn't want to participate, so the Diocese sent them away to be 'healed'. In order to de-frock someone, they have to have been investigated by the Church and found to have committed egregious offenses. The Boston Archdiocese had defrocked at least one priest, Bill Porter, but I don't know if Geoghan or Shanley had been defrocked. That's something else the new Pope helped to do; make it easier for a Diocese to de-frock a priest.

Some of this problem had to do with the areas of the country, too. In heavily Catholic areas, like here in the Northeast, people looked upon priests as one who could do no wrong, and of whom no questions should be asked. In other parts of the country, especially where there were fewer Catholics folks didn't think that way, at least where I grew up in MS, we didn't. We knew the priests were men who could make mistakes just like anyone else, and we didn't put them up on some sort of pedestal.In the South, I know that priests had been sent to jail. My b-i-l is a priest in MS, and he talks of a former priest sitting in Angola prison right now because several of his brother priests turned him in to the cops. Whenever he comes up for parole, the lib nuns go to the prison to cry and beg for his release, while the priests, one of whom is now in a wheelchair, tell the prison officials not to let him out cause they'd have to shoot him if he were set free because he's never ever admitted that what he did was wrong.

The psychologists were involved because back in the late 60's and up into the 80's that's the way institutions handled these problems. It wasn't just the Catholic Church, though you'd have to be forgiven if you thought so, because that's the way the media presented it. It was part and parcel of the modernization that came out of Vatican II. The Church was trying to solve moral problems with psychology. They failed spectacularly, and frankly, I'm still waiting for some newspaper to question the field of psychology that was responsible for allowing these men back out into the world. Somehow they are never mentioned, though it was their professional advice that was being followed all over the country.

There have been plenty of changes made, and the Dioceses are much more willing to bring a priest up on charges, even with one allegation. Of course, that brings its own problems, and ones with which Benedict XVI is familiar because he also guided the American Bishops in re-tooling their policies to protect a priests identity until there was some creedance to any allegation. There were too many charges, conveniently against long dead priests, or from 'recovered memories', coming out of the woodwork after the Boston Globe had done their stories. Cardinal Ratzinger didn't want these mens' reputations besmirched falsely because once accused, he knew it was hard to get one's good name back.

166 posted on 04/26/2005 9:11:36 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: LIConFem
They're just fantasy/fiction, for Pete's sake. How are the Harry Potter books different from the b'zillions of other childrens' books/stories that most of us grew up reading (Alice in Wonderland, for example)?

I can't speak for the experience of others, but in my city where we have some mega-bookstores, the Harry Potter section is usually one shelf away from massive rows of witchcraft books aimed at children, teens and adults. These range from colorful and happy kiddy spell books all the way up to to Necronomicon, Aleister Crowley and Lavey's Satanic Bible. This steaming pagan crap heap proudly takes its place in the "religion" section which is running about at a 90% heresy rate. In the catholicism section, I found a catechism and one lonely George Weigel book among a sea of heretics (Harpur, Greely, Pagels etc.) Rather than condemn a single book or author, I look at the trend and shudder. The average city bookstore is now completely de-catholicized and replaced with a counterfeit occult spirituality. Harry Potter is just one little brick in the massive wall that secular humanism is building between the God's truth and humanity.

I imagine more than a few people became interested in Catholicism after the death of JPII and election of Benedict XVI. God help them if they visited any of these stores in search of greater understanding. And pity the young people who become interested in God and want to buy a simple truthful booklet to read. The light of the Gospels is systematically being snuffed out of the public sphere and this evil is poured into the vacuum.

167 posted on 04/26/2005 11:20:44 PM PDT by Antioch (Benedict XVI: "I think the essential point is a weakness of faith.")
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To: discostu
He goes to learn to control the powers he already has. That's one of the big things that people that condemn HP always ignore, due to genetic pre-disposition Harry is a wizard whether he gets training or not,

So the child reading the book could come to believe that he has similar untapped powers. See the danger?

At best, this is run-of-the-mill New Age gnosticism. At worst, it's an invitation to practice wizardry.

168 posted on 04/27/2005 4:36:00 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Antoninus
If I remember correctly, one of the hallmarks of the Harry Potter series is people who you thought were acting in an evil manner end up being portrayed as good-guys in the end.

Since you see everything from Harry's perspective, you can frequently make bad assumptions about other people and their motivations. This isn't that person X acted evil but turned out good (or vice-versa), it's that Harry makes a bad assumption about person X because of incomplete information, and turns out later to be mistaken.

The books (at least the first four) are primarily mystery stories, and mis-direction as to who the "bad guy" really is, including some red herrings about innocent folks, is a good thing in a mystery. Compare to most kid lit, where you know who the villain is the first time they appear in the story...

Also, Harry continuously breaks the rules, never suffers any consequences, and indeed, is often rewarded for breaking the rules in the end.

I wouldn't say that he never suffers consequences -- he's frequently punished for breaking rules (in many cases, these punishements set up plot points by putting him in a specific location at a time he otherwise wouldn't be there). But what teenage boy (or pre-teen) isn't a little rebellious? In the end, Harry does things for the right reasons, even if he makes mistakes along the way.

169 posted on 04/27/2005 4:37:46 AM PDT by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
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To: LIConFem
As for actually engaging in occult practices, I can't really address that because I wouldn't know an "occult practice" from a sinus headache.

Tarot. Seances. Ouija. Fortune-telling, etc.

But again, do a child's interests necessarily congeal into hard belief?

Not necessarily. But if you have children, you know that children are strongly influenced by the stories that they're exposed to.

Is pretending to be a wizard any more harmful than pretending to be Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman?

Yes, because the occult is real.

170 posted on 04/27/2005 4:39:36 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: LIConFem
Do you really think that those kids actually BELIEVE anything they wrote of their experiences?

Yes. Absolutely. A bogus review would be pretty easy to identify.

Additionally, you can find plenty of people here on FR who've had similar experiences. My wife played around with a ouija board once when she was a child, and she swears the planchet moved on its own. She never messed with it again.

Hostage to the Devil reveals the dangers of dabbling in the occult. It's a great book, but absolutely terrifying.

171 posted on 04/27/2005 4:47:17 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: js1138
I'm currently re-reading the Holmes canon, and having a great time doing it. The stories might not be the finest literature out there, but I highly doubt they'll ever fade away as they're a real joy and extremely entertaining.

I don't have much experience with Dickens, but I just started Oliver Twist last week - it looks like it won't disappoint.

172 posted on 04/27/2005 5:02:18 AM PDT by Serb5150 (The air of London is sweeter for my presence.)
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To: Aquinasfan
"Yes, because the occult is real."

And perhaps that's where I'm missing the boat here. I have no real exposure to the occult, and I've never thought of it as anything but a fanciful farce. If I'm wrong in that regard, then I suppose it could change my thinking on the issue. I guess I have some reading to do.
173 posted on 04/27/2005 5:13:34 AM PDT by LIConFem (Mein Luftkissenboot ist mit Aalen voll.)
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To: Serb5150

Sherlock Holmes gives you something to do while waiting for the next HP book. Agatha Christie is also good. The best of British pulp fiction is timeless.


174 posted on 04/27/2005 5:53:27 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: LIConFem
And perhaps that's where I'm missing the boat here.

That's usually the root of these kinds of disagreements 8-).

The existence of the demons is a tough thing to prove positively, although the anecdotes can be very convincing and difficult to explain otherwise.

If you're a Christian, the existence of the demonic is easier to believe since there are many references to, and warnings against, occultic practices in Scripture.

175 posted on 04/27/2005 6:13:38 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
"If you're a Christian, the existence of the demonic is easier to believe since there are many references to, and warnings against, occultic practices in Scripture."

I am a Christian, and I have no problem accepting that demons exist. But I'm still a skeptic when it comes to the idea of summoning these critters using Ouija boards, seances and tarot cards, just as I'm skeptical (though not necessarily a hard-line scoffer) of stories of possession, ghosts, goblins and the tooth fairy :)

Anyway, my knowledge of the occult is obviously lacking, but this exchange has given me something to think about.
176 posted on 04/27/2005 6:28:58 AM PDT by LIConFem (Mein Luftkissenboot ist mit Aalen voll.)
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To: Antioch; Claud
Impractical Magic
Originally published in the Bucks County Courier Times

Pennsylvanians go Transylvanian as another bumper crop of pumpkins heralds the advent of Halloween, with all its impish lampooning of evil and death.

And so on a recent chilly moonlit night, I was walking through Borders Books and Music in Oxford Valley, quickening my steps and averting my eyes through certain wicked little sections as if they bore Dante’s immortal inscription over the entrance of Hell: “Per me si va nella città dolente...” = “Through me one enters the city of sorrow...”

In the ostensible sanctuary of the young adult section, I was halted by a fiendish little apparition called Silver Ravenwolf’s Teen Witch Kit, with sundry occult items depicted on the cover along with two young malcontents, who, if they lived under my roof, I’d ground until Christmas just for looking like that.

Yes, for the low retail price of $24.95 (broomstick sold separately), you can provide your teens with everything they need to enter the lucrative world of sorcery. Why let them fritter their lives away in such useless rational pursuits like science, music or engineering, when they can be employed in more constructive enterprises like say, using love magic to bewitch Britney Spears.

New Age publisher Llewellyn Worldwide released this Endora’s box back in August. It contains six “magickal talismans”: a bell, moon pendant, prosperity coin, crystal, wish cord, and—of course—the always handy pentagram, a must have for the budding young heresiarch.

Fifteenth century alchemist Thomas Norton is slapping his spectral forehead right about now. Forget all this red philosophers’ stone malarky. Stick a few trinkets in a box, find yourself a bookstore outlet, and voilá! You can turn credulousness into gold!

(Me, I’m working on a Phrenology Fun Pack as we speak. Ka-ching!)

I’m trying to understand here what peculiar pleasure we adults take in allowing every superstition, pseudo-science and snake-oil to be planted in teenagers’ minds at the very same time we are ripping hard science, history and classics out of their education by the roots.

Ecology is no longer the scientific study of population dynamics—it is an experiment in leftist brainwashing, where the one species on Earth we secretly hope goes extinct is our own. History is no longer the analysis of past events—it’s the script for a multiculturalist comic book in which the protagonists defend the earth from villainous white people, whose only apparent contribution to world civilization is apologizing for their existence. And barely an iota of our venerable Greco-Roman heritage is left in higher education: former classical bastions like Bryn Mawr might now have more students worshiping Greek gods than translating Greek literature.

Into this cast-iron cauldron of politically-correct ignorance we now hope to stir in witchcraft?

Pardon me while I choke on my eye of newt.

I’ll leave it to the clergy to give this Teen Witch Kit the business end of Commandment Numero Uno. For the time being let’s just say there’s a reason why witchcraft is on the outs with both science and religion—including, incidentally, many of the old pagan ones which this kit purports to draw from.

It’s thoroughly senseless to convince teenagers that they possess magical powers, which in point of fact, they don’t have and never will. We can sympathize with their escapism, and understand why it might be sorely tempting at times to trade the reality of Bensalem PA for the fantasy of Salem MA. But maturity tells us that this is not an egocentric universe which orbits around our petty wants and desires. Bad things happen to us all whether we want them to or not. And that’s why one night a year we personify those grim realities into devils, ghosts and witches, and have a bit of fun at their expense.

Ultimately it doesn’t matter if it’s white magic, black magic, or a darling shade of mauve: when you start chipping away at the moorings of reason, every day starts to look a bit more like Halloween and, as Jerry Springer demonstrates, people start to dress accordingly.

And should one of those spandex specimens come sauntering up to my door on any other night besides October 31st, I ain’t reaching for the candy corn, I’m dialing 911.
177 posted on 04/27/2005 7:20:59 AM PDT by Antoninus (Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini, Hosanna in excelsis!)
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To: Antoninus

I was clearly a victim of dorks that love to condemn people and called themselves Christian. But the truth is the constant condemners aren't really Christians, they don't follow any of the rules. They pretend to know God's will by telling people what kind of music He will and won't accept you listening to, they judge constantly and react very aggresively when judged, they don't attempt to teach.

No I wasn't a societal outcast, I found myself a society, gamers and metal heads. No I chanel my annoyance at the constant condemners in a simple mission: to point out what a bunch of hypocritical assholes they are. I have no problem with Fundamentalists or Catholics, so long as they actually understand the teaching and don't constantly condemn people just because they have different tastes in entertainment.

No you were never in my shoes, you were one of those screwed up kids I mentioined a while ago. You were a wreck going down the wrong path before you ever discovered gaming or metal and now you blame the gaming and the metal, but if you honestly assessed you'd aknowledge the truth, you were on that path before. And I can see it in one sentence " It's amusing now to remember how seriously I took it all at the time", I don't take it serious, it's fun stuff to pass the time, enjoyable music to keep me energized at work, and the method I've used to develop most of my important friendships in life. I listen to Spinal Tap just to make sure I DON'T take it seriously. The only part of the whole thing I take seriously is how people like YOU drive metal fans and gamers away from the faith, people driving others away from the faith is serious, harmless forms of entertainment are not, and anybody that took them serious was a screwed up kid on the path ruin.

I'm 35 years old, married for 13 years, well respected in the local area of my field for my skills, paid hansomely, and not in debt. I think as a man, I understand as a man, and I entertain myself with things made by men. Deal with it.


178 posted on 04/27/2005 8:06:32 AM PDT by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: SuziQ

No the problem is every time the Church got word that some priest was a problem they shipped him off elsewhere and destroyed the evidence. They treated it as a PR problem.

I'll believe there have been changes when I see it. Right now they've added a lot of rules that IF they actually enforce them will take giant leaps towards fixing the problem... IF the actually enforce them. Only time will tell.


179 posted on 04/27/2005 8:08:31 AM PDT by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: Aquinasfan

No they couldn't. If there's a kid running around who's hair regrows to the previous length the night after it's cut, had windows disappear before his eyes, and all the various other stuff that happened to Harry in the books before he found out he was a wizard then his parents have much bigger fish to fry. He didn't have your normal run of the mill wierdness hapen to him, no big coincidences or anything petty like that, he had high profile unexplainable occurances happen fairly regularly.

No this isn't new age gnosticism, it's a STORY about an IMAGINARY world where wizards really exist and it's purely a genetic trait. The only thing it's an invitation to is buying the merchandising, like any other mass market product it's all about the benjamins.


180 posted on 04/27/2005 8:12:24 AM PDT by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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