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Posted on 04/07/2007 3:14:35 PM PDT by mom4kittys
Thread Number 3
The CH may not have shown up as chronic in her system, but it had been on KE’s laundry list prescription back on Sept. 15th, in addition to the Jan. 2nd prescription in HKS’s name - and who knows how many other times in between.
“not buying it...anna was down to maintenance methadone and some zanax according to the shelley. If she ws back to old levels by Feb, then somebody supplied it to her.”
Getting off of Xanax is a snatch compared to getting off of the lowest levels of “maintenance” methadone. It’s the last 30mg that keeps people unable to let go. Xanax withdrawal is easily done by converting to any other longer acting benzo - like clonopin or Dalmane which wear off over such a long time - the half life of Dalmane is 72 hrs, that they practically taper themselves. Methadone withdrawal, the last few milligrams - 20 -30mg is a bear. Look on any site. That’s the problem and why so many relapse or add heroin or other stuff at that point. The anxiety symptoms are unbearable. It has to be done extremely slowly, with even a non-depressed, non bipolar patient. ANS presented big problems for HKS and KE. I’m not saying the did something on purpose, I’m saying they were getting desperate — translation, cavalier. They were getting more exasperated and probably seeing her wellbeing as less important and were focuse on just “getting through,” whatever was threatening them.
I think her chronic addiction had become less manageable and more of a threat.
i was
but i didnt' know where to share my thoughts about it, and my political room just laughed it off...
LOL. Sorry, I need to turn in. Too many typos.
the gay coalition, Milstein, stern et al, versus Virgie the southern baptist republican with traditional values lolol
but anna ws with g ben in dec?
“While the patient is intoxicated with GHB and apneic he or she may have episodes of violent agitation so physical stimulation must be kept at minimum. (THIS WOULD BE NOT SEEN IF GIVEN WITH METHADONE)”
Could you correct your comment? Would be seen or would not be seen?
Do you remember that Daniel was found with bruises on his body? That has mystified me. What took place? Did he and Howard leave together as Anna said to the nannies? We haven’t been privy to the hospital records yet, so it’s quite possible. Did they have a fight? Or was Daniel given that lethal mixture which made him physically agitated?
In both deaths, Howard was not physically examined by police right afterwards. Hmmm.
i don't think Anna had much money - did yu see the cheap bag of bolts car that kimmie drove her around in? Stern had the money controlled and he spent it on legal issues as fast as anna brought it in - the trimspa money was partly spent on suing the attorneys that originlly helped them with daniels death - where the rest of that 500K (?) went, is anyone's guess..
can we verify this? my recollection was she called him from the detox, he went to visit, and was thrown out by the nurses?
anyone got larry's transcript on this, please? can we doublecheck??
Could you correct your comment? Would be seen or would not be seen?
IMO the agitated component would not be seen. I think that methdone, even a bit in an unaccustomed person, would be enough to suppress the agitation symptoms and there would be little evidence of anything until the apnea set in. Apparently there are Cheyne Stokes respirations just before death which have alarmed several people who have remarked on them and therefore concluded they weren’t just seeing someone sleeping. As a result, they were able to get their family members (in one case it was a fiance and his friend) to medical attention in time. There are more than a few internet reports about intoxication with GHB and methadone.
“Do you remember that Daniel was found with bruises on his body? That has mystified me. What took place? Did he and Howard leave together as Anna said to the nannies?”
I don’t know. I think others have posted links to reports in the Bahamian newspapers that say things about this period. Maybe someone else can help here.
I thought I read one report that there was alot of blood splattered and bloody vomit or vomit all over the sheets in the room with Daniel. I also thought I read that the general consensus was that Daniel never left the hospital room, that that peice of info was a red herring put out there by virtue of Howard going out in Daniel’s jacket and baseball cap.
“We haven’t been privy to the hospital records yet, so it’s quite possible. Did they have a fight? Or was Daniel given that lethal mixture which made him physically agitated?” I believe the Methadone would have been sedative enough to have overridden the agitated component or phase before the apnea set in.
“In both deaths, Howard was not physically examined by police right afterwards. Hmmm”
HMMM indeed.
“where the rest of that 500K (?) went, is anyone’s guess.”
Drugs don’t come cheap. Neither do personal lawyers and psychiatrists. I can’t tell how many habits ANS was supporting.
Looked at from another perspective, her chronic addiction is what kept KE in her life. Earlier, I said that she needed her mother after Daniel died. It’s been reported here that HKS kept her from talking to her mother. KE was her surrogate mother figure. And also her pusher. If ANS felt she “needed” her drugs just to get through the day, then she would want KE in her life for both reasons. As long as KE could get the drugs for ANS, she was the “Good Mother”. Drugs and hugs. Lovely.
You also suggest another line of thought...the mystifying use of multiple anti-anxieties. Maybe KE kept throwing one drug after another (at legal levels) to keep ANS sedated. But ANS had so much tolerance from years of abuse, was such a large girl and highly agitated, achieving that sedation required all of those drugs. And sure enough it worked. When she died, the ME didn’t question the use of multiple sedatives because they were all within proper dose levels in her body! Talk about CYA.
Still, I tend to believe that the detox from methadone was required because traveling with methadone was out of the question going through customs, or because of the upcoming DNA/drug test. HKS may also have detoxed himself prior to the trip, i.e., he had flu symptoms in the Bahamas. I really think he was also a user, just not as addicted as ANS. Maybe the purpose of the Cracker was drug running? Who knows? It sure makes a great whodunit, though. G’night. See you all next week.
has stern recinded his restraining order preventing the baby from leaving the island, (put in place prior to the one Virgie requested, and) in response to LB's custody suit?
I'd like to see clinical evidence on this.
In a society where over 50% of all marriages fail, there are millions of kids, who may have different parents and not-the-same-parent siblings. Picture a couple, married twice, with children from each marriage between them, in addition to any children they may also have. It's unreasonable not to allow the children of the absent parents, to also identify with their extended family on the absent parents' side and to spend holidays and significant days with them. i.e, thanksgiving here one year, there the next. A Family Court would, and regularly does, agree. Anna was not married; that should give her mother more weight also IF conservative moral values pervade. IMO
this still does not fit into any part of the puzzle - 'forced withdrawal' is a smokescreen. DNA testing can be ordered to only test DNA, not drugs.
again, a maintenance methadone dose level would not have been sufficient reason for Anna to lose custody. Methadone wasn't the problem. The numerous televised drugged appearances, the still photos and video of Anna at the wrestling match, the fed-x shipping bills, the laundry-list note, were all adequate to prove drug use. No drug test needed. The video and stills would have been testament enough to remove the child from custody, then force a drug test. Anna's custody goose was cooked January at the HardRock. HK had talked to Dubai, and could have delayed the DNA test for another 1 or 5 years. 'forced withdrawal' for a DNA/drug test February 28, on Feb 5-8th, doesn't compute.
what if i told you she was in phone contact with Anna up to just before her death?
the PI a number of things which he repeated in interview, so I don’t know about him,
i give him two cents if only for the reason that the majority of P.I.'s are former LEOs or FBI. I haven't backgrounded him, tho
How could Virgie know Daniel never tried/took drugs if she hadn’t had personal interaction with him for some time
how do you know that Virgie didnt have 'personal interaction'? is there any documentation on that?
what Larry said about Daniel stealing pills from Anna’s purse
larry 'said'; larry's said a lot of things - like anna was blind with drugs when pregnant - but she wasn't when she was with the shelleys - larry is protecting HK, not Daniel - Anna never told anyone but larry the purse story? anna hired Wecht because shedidnt' believe there were any drugs in Daniel at all !
transcript
BROWN: Well, last summer, Anna and Larry definitely had a relationship. They both admitted that they were intimate. I don`t think that there`s any reason to believe that there`s not a possibility that he is the father of Dannilynn. What people should be skeptical of the fact is that, you know, both Anna and Larry were known for being partiers. And you`ll see lots of pictures of them partying at the club, both looking like they`re having a lot of fun. And now he`s kind of, like, assassinating her character. Anna made a lot of money doing the reality shows and things like that, but that has kind of waned. And with the death of Daniel, there`s a lot of new money being presented. Remember that the case with her ex-husband has not been settled yet. So you do have to be skeptical of his motives at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, so let me go to psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall to try to get a grip on this, because this was apparently a clean-cut young man. He was not on the party circuit; he wasn`t being seen all over Hollywood, driving late at night and getting DUIs. And yet that`s an astounding amount of drugs to be found in his system.Alex Goen, you knew this young man, Daniel, a handsome, young boy, just such a good-looking kid, apparently such a nice kid. What do you make of all this? I mean, as you put your thinking cap on and try to solve this mystery, because part of what`s fueling this story and keeping it alive is that nobody can figure out how he died and why he died.
GOEN: Well, I mean, it`s quite puzzling. I think that you have to first give Anna Nicole a lot of credit. I mean, she hired Cyril and said anything that comes out, please post it immediately. Otherwise, if she didn`t, people would accuse her of having a cover-up. So they`ve been very, very open.
But I don`t know. I`ve never seen Daniel take anything. As a matter of fact, if anything, he had a deep hatred for any kinds of drugs. Because, as is widely reported, Anna Nicole did have some challenges back eight to 10 years ago. And it was Daniel that really saved Anna`s life, or at least that`s what Anna says and that`s what Howard says, so it`s quite surprising.
What could have happened, I have no idea. I know Anna wants to know.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0611/02/ng.01.html
i'm with you. this entire situation is entirely too surreal
Get out*(&&))((%%^^*$ I’m Luvin’ it!!
Harmonic convergence - all is well in River City;)
HA!!!!!!!!
well,,,,, in MY world it would be unlikely - but we are in AnnaLand now !
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