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If Obama Is Eventually Impeached, Then Would Everything That He Signed Into Law Also Become Null?
me | 10/09/09 | johnthebaptistmoore

Posted on 10/09/2009 8:53:20 AM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore

If Obama is eventually impeached because he really was born in Kenya, then would everything that he signed into law also become null? I also don't see Obama ever really being impeached unless the GOP as well as conservatives in general actually have a supermajority of Congressional politicians in place after mid-January '11.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: certifigate; impeached; laws; obama
This is probably a dumb question to ask, but I still wanted to ask it anyways. Also, could the present SCOTUS eventually overturn many of what, both, Obama and the leftist Congress make into law, due to much of what they pass being unconstitutional?
1 posted on 10/09/2009 8:53:21 AM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

No.


2 posted on 10/09/2009 8:54:04 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: johnthebaptistmoore
If it is proven he is ineligible, it would not be impeachment. It would be an annulment.

If he is impeached, then his laws stay on the books.

3 posted on 10/09/2009 8:55:01 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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bump


4 posted on 10/09/2009 8:55:50 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Useless Thread


5 posted on 10/09/2009 8:57:17 AM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

No. Impeachment is a polictical process. Even if a President is impeached, it does not changed the fact that he was in fact President when he signed any bills.

Congress would have to change any laws.

I do not see either happening any time soon, but it could happen, but like I say, not likely.


6 posted on 10/09/2009 8:57:17 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

I doubt anything will happen to him. He’s supposed to be “The One.”

They’d bomb American cities.


7 posted on 10/09/2009 8:59:32 AM PDT by wastedyears (If I don't have a right to play defense, then I'll go on offense. - FReeper Enterprise)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

No. A law is declared unconstitutional when a Court strikes it down. If there are laws you believe to be unconstitutional and you are a party “with standing”, contact your nearest chapter of the Federalist Society and find a lawyer to pursue a case!
http://www.fed-soc.org/chapters/


8 posted on 10/09/2009 9:00:18 AM PDT by worst-case scenario (Striving to reach the light)
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To: ShadowAce

Since there is no case law or other precedent, I wouldn’t be so sure as to how it would go down. One of the main problems is that there is (to borrow a phrase from Al Gore) no controlling authority to declare an annulment.

An impeachment is likely the only practical way to go and even if he is ineligible I don’t think the votes would exist to convict.

Just my $.02


9 posted on 10/09/2009 9:00:31 AM PDT by Comstock1 (So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Removal from office. Impeachment is just the indictment phase. The House of Representatives acts like a Grand Jury. The Senate tries and upon conviction, removes the officer from office. Criminal charges would be a separate trial in regular courts following removal.

In the case of someone who has achieved the office via a fraudulent election, and who also in ineligible for office on the basis of not meeting the minimal Constitutional requirements for office, in either case it is not clear that impeachment would have to take place.

Nor is it clear what the result of laws and decrees initiated during such a term of a invalid office holder would be. Statute law can not override the Constitution.

Also, most of Federal Law passed since FDR is unconstitutional, but the courts have been lazy or corrupted.


10 posted on 10/09/2009 9:00:43 AM PDT by bvw
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

No, because the executive power would still have been vested in him. Impeachment and removal would simply remove the executive power from him and vest it in someone else.


11 posted on 10/09/2009 9:01:52 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

You cannot impeach someone who was never POTUS in the first place. “or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified”: U.S. Constitution, Amendment 20 http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am20.html


12 posted on 10/09/2009 9:02:10 AM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: CIB-173RDABN

According to the Constitution the fact is Obama is not President.


13 posted on 10/09/2009 9:02:32 AM PDT by bvw
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To: shooter223

The 20th would not apply because the election was fraudulent, under the fruit of the poisoned tree doctrine.


14 posted on 10/09/2009 9:03:42 AM PDT by bvw
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

He isn’t going to be impeached he will be marched out by US Marshalls and placed in one of those beat down Yellow cabs of DC, that feel like they are coming apart.

He is ineligible, so impeachment would not apply.


15 posted on 10/09/2009 9:05:22 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore
I also don't see Obama ever really being impeached unless the GOP as well as conservatives in general actually have a supermajority...

No republican/conservative is going to impeach "the first black president". Ain't gonna happen, period.

His own party may impeach, however, when it becomes apparent that their left wing is fomenting their destruction.

16 posted on 10/09/2009 9:12:00 AM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

no.

They’d have to go back and undo it with new laws


17 posted on 10/09/2009 9:14:50 AM PDT by GeronL ("On my twelfth day in office, Nobel nominated me..")
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Is that what happened when Clinton was impeached?


18 posted on 10/09/2009 9:20:27 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: wastedyears

They???


19 posted on 10/09/2009 9:21:20 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: stuartcr

The government


20 posted on 10/09/2009 9:22:19 AM PDT by wastedyears (If I don't have a right to play defense, then I'll go on offense. - FReeper Enterprise)
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To: bvw

My point was, if zero is not a “natural born citizen”,(Article 2, Section 1) then he “shall have failed to qualify” under the 20th, and is therefore not POTUS in the first place. IMO, that makes every piece of paper he has signed, and every official action he has taken null and void.


21 posted on 10/09/2009 9:23:11 AM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: stuartcr
"Is that what happened when Clinton was impeached?"

People always forget it's not the impeachment that counts, it's the conviction in the Senate that matters.

22 posted on 10/09/2009 9:23:30 AM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: wastedyears

You really think that would happen?


23 posted on 10/09/2009 9:23:37 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: OldDeckHand

True


24 posted on 10/09/2009 9:24:17 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: stuartcr
I have no doubt about it. Maybe not outright bombing, but they'd certainly roll into towns.


25 posted on 10/09/2009 9:25:03 AM PDT by wastedyears (If I don't have a right to play defense, then I'll go on offense. - FReeper Enterprise)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Forgive me for questioning anyone’s hope that this national nightmare could end before 2012, but I hope you’re not staying awake at night, dreaming of this scenario to become a reality. Look at what we all went through when a proven sexual harrasser, abuser of power, liar to investigators and the American people, misogynistic POS of a POTUS was caught with his pants down....ain’t gunna happen! (But we can always hope...)


26 posted on 10/09/2009 9:26:01 AM PDT by matginzac
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To: bvw

He is until he isn’t.

I will not play word games with people.

Statements like this makes this site look like it is full of “crazies” and “whackos”.

If, and until, a court rules on this, or Congress impeaches him, the President is the President.

I would prefer he wasn’t, but it is what it is.


27 posted on 10/09/2009 9:26:28 AM PDT by CIB-173RDABN
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To: CIB-173RDABN

I’m not playing a word game. That’s the law.


28 posted on 10/09/2009 9:28:07 AM PDT by bvw
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To: OldDeckHand

That’s correct. Two Presidents have been impeached. Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. Neither were convicted.


29 posted on 10/09/2009 9:28:17 AM PDT by Signalman
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To: wastedyears

Why would they do that?


30 posted on 10/09/2009 9:30:09 AM PDT by stuartcr (If we are truly made in the image of God, why do we have faults?)
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To: shooter223

In your opinion. However, there are precedents for dealing with such situations. Me, imo, I prefer letting the VALID holder of the office — whether that is Cheney, Biden, Pelosi, McCain, Palin or Byrd is debatable, but it would be one of them — act as a special master in making the determination as to whether the law or order stands. This is like the settlement of disbursing the assets and liabilities of a scheme of fraud.

The other precedent I’ve seen mentioned here is one I do not like at all, in general or in this specific case — the laws stand under a principle of de facto authority, invoked so as to reduce disruption.

In any case Obama is as much a calamity as a coup would be. Since he holds office illegitimately it is a coup d’etat.


31 posted on 10/09/2009 9:36:36 AM PDT by bvw
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To: shooter223
"IMO, that makes every piece of paper he has signed, and every official action he has taken null and void."

American jurisprudence has a mechanism, more commonly known as a doctrine or a legal principle, that specifically deals with the circumstances and effects of someone "illegally" holding an office, and the legality of the actions he takes while illegally holding that the office. It's call the "de facto officer doctrine".

It's a well-tested principle that has been cited as recently as 1996, in a Rehnquist decision. If you google Ryder v. US, you'll find the case most enlightening. Essentially, whatever laws Obama signs, whatever appointments he makes, whatever military or executive orders or even pardons he issues all will continue to have the full force of law, until such a time that they are either reversed by additional legislation, or new orders.

32 posted on 10/09/2009 9:37:24 AM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: randog
His own party may impeach, however, when it becomes apparent that their left wing is fomenting their destruction.

As far as I'm concerned the entire Democratic party are communists and welcome the overthrow of the capitalists system and the destruction of rule by the Constitution.

33 posted on 10/09/2009 9:37:41 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: bvw

“VALID holder of the office” ....... By my reading of the 20th Amendment, probably Biden.


34 posted on 10/09/2009 9:39:48 AM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Not for impeachment, only if he is found to be ineligible.


35 posted on 10/09/2009 9:41:03 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: OldDeckHand

Never heard of “de facto officer doctrine”. Will do some research. Thanx for the info.


36 posted on 10/09/2009 9:44:23 AM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: OldDeckHand

Upon doing a little research (didn’t take much), it seems you are correct about “de facto officer doctrine”. I learned something I didn’t know before. Guess you can teach an old dog.(Recently turned 60). Thanks.


37 posted on 10/09/2009 10:28:35 AM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

Everything he’s done is already null and void - damn constitution...


38 posted on 10/09/2009 10:29:43 AM PDT by mudblood
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To: johnthebaptistmoore

This is probably a dumb question to ask, but I still wanted to ask it anyways. Also, could the present SCOTUS eventually overturn many of what, both, Obama and the leftist Congress make into law, due to much of what they pass being unconstitutional?

***

That is a tricky situation - and SCOTUS would have to weigh in on this, even in an advisory opinion (which it doesn’t normally do). It is not in the Constitution - but this situation was never contemplated by the Founding Fathers.

Let me try to put this simply - the questions I pose would be for SCOTUS to decide ...

1. Many states, such as NJ have laws that state if a person is found to be ineligible - then his election is null and void, even after assuming office.

Does this mean that he never held the office? If so, are all acts committed while he was in office valid?

2. In the case of POTUS - does the VP assume the presidency (assuming he is eligible) under the 25th Amendment?

The reason I ask is that the same electors whose votes in the Electoral College are invalidated for Obama are the same electors who elected Biden VP. The 12th Amendment erased the electoral voting problem in Article II, Section I by separating the vote for POTUS and VP in the Electoral College.

But, it did not erase the problem in the General Election.

In the General Election, the public voted for one slate of electors to vote for both POTUS and VP in the Electoral College. McCain/Palin had 538 separate indiividual electors and Obama/Biden had 538 different electors. The Electoral College was constituted of 365 Obama/Biden electors and McCain/Palin had 173.

If those Obama/Palin electors have their votes for Obama tossed, do they also get tossed for Biden?

Or does SCOTUS rule that the implicit intent of an individual voter for Obama/Biden is that if Obama is ineligible, then they want Biden at the top?

Since most voters only vote the top of the ticket - who is to say that they would have voted Democratic if say, it had been Clinton/Biden?


39 posted on 10/09/2009 11:03:30 AM PDT by Lmo56
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To: gathersnomoss

Useful for diversion while awaiting Judge Carter. I wonder if he was getting ready to dismiss the case on Friday then decided to hold it for Monday so as not to appear ridiculous in the midst of all the Nobel adulation, like the guy tearing up the arrest warrant in the last scene of It’s a Wonderful Life.


40 posted on 10/10/2009 6:55:33 AM PDT by Genoa (Luke 12:2)
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