Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Complex, Multicellular Life from Over Two Billion Years Ago Discovered
Sciencedaily.com ^ | 07/01/10

Posted on 07/06/2010 2:59:07 AM PDT by jerry557

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-78 last
To: wendy1946

LOL! There’s the fudge I was waiting for...thanks.


61 posted on 07/08/2010 3:43:17 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker
Somewhere I had something else, memory's too hazy, but anyway, meanwhile:
Rocks show life began 1bn years earlier than first thought
The Guardian
Saturday August 14, 1999
[orig: www.newsunlimited.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,73745,00.html]
Scientists studying Australian rocks have found evidence that primitive forms of life existed 2.7bn years ago - a billion years earlier than had been previously shown... The finding pushes back evidence of life to the Archean era, the period from the beginning of earth to about 2.5bn years ago... Most rocks as old as the ones studied have undergone a process called metamorphism, an intense geological heating that changes them and which scientists believed would destroy any organic compounds they contained. But the shales studied by this team were well-preserved and still contained the biological chemicals. The researchers found evidence of organic compounds called lipids in the sedimentary rocks located more than 2,100ft deep in north-western Australia's Roy Hill Shale and Marra Mamba Formations. The rocks formed a seabed 2.6 bn to 2.7 bn years ago... Because of their complexity, eukaryotes were thought to have developed relatively late in earth's history. This discovery pushes the date for their appearance back to the earliest part of geological time.
Early life theory takes a biff
May 24, 2002
Moreover, the carbon isotopic basis used for interpreting its organic origin is questionable, the authors say. The authors demonstrate that much of the fine layering in the banded rocks, interpreted as a typical BIF (Banded Iron Formation) sedimentary structure, was in fact formed as a result of metamorphic processes.

A chemical study of the rocks also points away from a BIF origin for the banded rock. Analyses of green bands show that their composition is very similar to komatiite, a type of basalt. If this is correct there is little chance that the preserved graphite represents past life.

Recent studies of hydrothermal vents on mid-ocean ridges have also shown that basalt-like rocks can interact with water to form carbon compounds by non-biological processes, leaving an isotopic signature similar to that of metabolic function. While it is possible life existed on Earth when the rocks on Akilia formed, direct evidence for life older than approximately 3.8 billion years ago is still lacking.

62 posted on 07/08/2010 5:00:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2095263/posts


63 posted on 07/08/2010 5:02:13 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2059790/posts


64 posted on 07/08/2010 5:05:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Going back 2 billion years is getting back in the era when the Earth was radically different than it is today, so I guess that’s fueling my interest in seeing more data. I tend to go with the second article you posted.


65 posted on 07/08/2010 6:31:22 PM PDT by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker

I think one of those links I posted may have gone to the wrong place, as well.


66 posted on 07/08/2010 6:37:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

Greek Myths: Not Necessariliy Mythical

Culture/Society News
Source: New York Times
Published: 7/4/00 Author: JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Posted on 07/07/2000 07:37:37 PDT by H.R. Gross

Greek Myths: Not Necessariliy Mythical

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

NNeither an archaeologist nor a paleontologist herself, Adrienne Mayor has nonetheless done some digging deep into the past and found literary and artistic clues -- and not a few huge fossils -- that seem to explain the inspiration for many of the giants, monsters and other strange creatures in the mythology of antiquity.

"I have discovered that if you take all the places of Greek myths, those specific locales turn out to be abundant fossil sites," Ms. Mayor, a classical folklorist and independent scholar, said in an interview. "But there is also a lot of natural knowledge embedded in those myths, showing that Greek perceptions about fossils were pretty amazing for prescientific people."

Her years of research thus challenge the widely held view that natural historians in classical Greece and Rome lacked the knowledge to interpret large vertebrate fossils as organic remains of the past. That conceptual breakthrough, representing the start of the modern science of paleontology, was supposedly made by the French naturalist Georges Cuvier in 1806.

Yet much like today's fossil hunters, Ms. Mayor found, ancient Greeks and Romans collected and measured the petrified bones they encountered and displayed them in temples and museums. They, too, recognized fossils as evidence of past life, now extinct, anticipating Cuvier by more than 2,000 years.

Still, the ancients often let their culture-bound imaginations run in unscientific directions. In her book, "The First Fossil Hunters: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times," published in May by Princeton University Press, Ms. Mayor draws on a close study of classical texts to show that some of the more impressive and mysterious fossils were used as evidence supporting existing myths or creating new ones.

The Homeric legend of Heracles rescuing Hesione by slaying the Monster of Troy, for example, may have a paleontological origin. Ms. Mayor pointed out that in the earliest known illustration of the Heracles legend, painted on a Corinthian vase, the monster's skull closely matched that of an extinct giraffe. Such fossils are plentiful on the Greek islands and western coast of Turkey and are mentioned in classical literature.

The vase painting from the sixth century B.C., Ms. Mayor concluded, is most likely "the earliest artistic record of a vertebrate fossil discovery."

Fossils found and displayed in antiquity on the island of Samos probably inspired the story of savage monsters called Neades, whose reverberating bellows were said to tear the earth apart.

The Greeks thus had a neat explanation for two perplexing phenomena, the gigantic bones and the earthquakes that frequently devastated their land.

Other discoveries of huge mammal bones were viewed as confirmation of the ancient Greek belief in ancestral heroes as 15-foot giants. Mastodon fossils on Samos were hailed as the remains of the war elephants Dionysus is supposed to have deployed in his mythic battle with the Amazons.

And where did the idea of the griffin come from? Aristeas, a seventh-century B.C. traveler, wrote of the gold-seeking Scythians who fought creatures in the Gobi Desert that resembled "lions but with the beak and wings of an eagle." These fierce creatures presumably nested on the ground and guarded deposits of gold. In reality, Ms. Mayor concluded, the griffin "was based on illiterate nomads' observations of dinosaur skeletons in the deserts of Central Asia."

Ms. Mayor's success in piecing together the griffin legend encouraged her to examine other Greek and Roman texts for "the world's oldest written descriptions of fossil finds," which had been overlooked by most classics scholars and historians of science. On a visit to Samos, she studied a rich collection of prehistoric bones and skulls with which the ancients must have been familiar. She began to put texts and fossils together and saw the ancients in a new light.

"Just as a fossil is 'petrified time,' so is an ancient artifact or text," she wrote. "The tasks of paleontologists and classical historians and archaeologists are remarkably similar -- to excavate, decipher and bring to life the tantalizing remnants of a time we will never see."

Although Ms. Mayor's interpretations may draw fire from some scholars, the response to her book has so far been favorable. John R. Horner, a dinosaur paleontologist at the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Mont., has called it "the best account ever concerning the real meaning of mythical creatures."

In a review in the journal Science, Dr. Mott T. Greene, a historian of geology at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Wash., praised Ms. Mayor's "well-documented contention that the ancients constructed their deep time as we have constructed ours, through the discovery and analysis of the fossil bones of extinct creatures."

"If they told stories about these fossils that differ from our own," Dr. Greene continued, "they examined the fossils with the same techniques we employ today: comparative anatomy, skeletal reconstruction, paleogeography and museum display."

Art historians think that Ms. Mayor may well have solved the puzzle of the Corinthian vase depicting Heracles shooting arrows at the head of the monster of the Troy legend. The vase, on display at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, had mystified the experts because its monster does not conform to the conventional serpentine image of Greek sea monsters.

Some experts like Sir John Boardman, an art historian at Oxford University in England, suspected that the vase was the work of an incompetent artist. But when Ms. Mayor called attention to the similarity between the monster and the skull of an extinct giraffe, Dr. Boardman agreed and invited her to expand on this interpretation in an article, which was published in the February issue of The Oxford Journal of Archaeology.

Paleontologists also agreed that the skull of an extinct giraffe, possibly Samotherium, often found eroding out of rock outcrops in the region, may have been the artist's model and perhaps even the inspiration for the original myth.

"This vase," Ms. Mayor wrote, "is valuable evidence for the role that observations of fossilized animal remains played in ancient myths of monsters."

Dr. Kate A. Robson Brown, an anthropologist at the University of Bristol in England, thinks that some of Ms. Mayor's fossil-myth connections may be a stretch. As she noted in the current issue of Natural History magazine, "Many cultures around the globe have colorful giant lore -- Norse fables and Australian creation stories come to mind -- without the benefit of rich fossil deposits."

Ms. Mayor said her study of ancient texts revealed ample evidence of a "bone rush" among Greeks in the fifth century B.C.

Every discovery of huge bones, it seems, prompted speculation that they belonged to this hero or that giant. Many of these finds happened to occur, Ms. Mayor said, at places where the gods and giants of mythology had met in battle.

She found in a second-century A.D. geography by the traveler Pausanias an account of the excitement created by the discovery of bones of heroic proportions that were taken to be those of mighty Ajax, of Trojan War legend. "Ajax's kneecaps were exactly the size of a discus for the boys' pentathlon," Pausanias wrote.

"Many scholars are not used to perceiving natural knowledge expressed in mythological language," Ms. Mayor said. "If the study of fossils was not mentioned by Aristotle or Thucydides, and it wasn't, then it just didn't exist for many classicists and ancient historians."

But, in a recent lecture at Cornell University, Ms. Mayor contended that bones of titanic mastodons at Samos inspired not just myths but "earthshaking concepts in early paleontological thinking."

The story of the monstrous Neades, she said, "contains the germ of the idea of extinction" long before Cuvier; these fossils were interpreted as the remains of strange, oversized creatures that lived before humans, and were no more. In time, after large Indian elephants became known, the myth of the Neades was abandoned. The huge bones of Samos were then explained by invoking the myth of Dionysus and the war elephants in battle against the Amazons.

As Ms. Mayor said, the first myth showed that the perceptive ancients were able to relate a fossil species to living animals, well before modern paleontology. The revised myth of the war elephants showed that they were responsive to new zoological knowledge, adapting mythology the way scientists today sometimes have to reshape theory.


1 Posted on 07/07/2000 07:37:37 PDT by H.R. Gross
[ Reply | Private Reply | Top | Last ]

67 posted on 07/08/2010 6:44:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

The First Fossil Hunters
by Adrienne Mayor, foreword by Peter Dodson
Did Fossils Inspire Mythology? by Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery.com News -- April 12, 2000 -- The legendary beasts of classical mythology may have been inspired by fossil remains of prehistoric species, according to a recent study. In her book, Mayor uncovers the roots of several myths. The story of Polypheme -- an enormous giant, a Cyclops with only one eye in the middle of his forehead -- may have been inspired by the remains of dwarf elephants, whose skulls display a hole in the place where the trunk is attached. And gold-guarding griffins could have originated from the skeletons of Protoceratops dinosaurs found in the Gobi desert in central Asia, an area of alluvial gold deposits. As for the battle between the gods and the giants, a dense concentration of large fossil bones found in lignite deposits around Megalopolis in the central Peloponnese might have inspired the belief that entire armies of giants were blasted by Zeus's thunderbolts. (thanks Val)
Cyclops Myth Spurred by "One-Eyed" Fossils?
by Hillary Mayell
National Geographic News
February 5, 2003
The tusk, several teeth, and some bones of a Deinotherium giganteum, which, loosely translated means really huge terrible beast, have been found on the Greek island Crete. A distant relative to today's elephants, the giant mammal stood 15 feet (4.6 meters) tall at the shoulder, and had tusks that were 4.5 feet (1.3 meters) long. It was one of the largest mammals ever to walk the face of the Earth... To paleontologists today, the large hole in the center of the skull suggests a pronounced trunk. To the ancient Greeks, Deinotherium skulls could well be the foundation for their tales of the fearsome one-eyed Cyclops... A cousin to the elephant, deinotheres roamed Europe, Asia, and Africa during the Miocene (23 to 5 million years ago) and Pliocene (5 to 1.8 million years ago) eras before becoming extinct. Finding the remains on Crete suggests the mammal moved around larger areas of Europe than previously believed, Fassoulas said... He suggests that the animals reached Crete from Turkey, swimming and island hopping across the southern Aegean Sea during periods when sea levels were lower. Many herbivores, including the elephants of today, are exceptionally strong swimmers.
The Histories (Book II)
by Herodotus
tr by G Rawlinson
"I went once to a certain place in Arabia, almost exactly opposite the city of Buto, to make inquiries concerning the winged serpents. On my arrival I saw the back-bones and ribs of serpents in such numbers as it is impossible to describe: of the ribs there were a multitude of heaps, some great, some small, some middle-sized. The place where the bones lie is at the entrance of a narrow gorge between steep mountains, which there open upon a spacious plain communicating with the great plain of Egypt. The story goes that with the spring the winged snakes come flying from Arabia towards Egypt, but are met in this gorge by the birds called ibises, who forbid their entrance and destroy them all. The Arabians assert, and the Egyptians also admit, that it is on account of the service thus rendered that the Egyptians hold the ibis in so much reverence."
In the Selincourt translation, the note for this passage is that no one has any idea what Herodotus describes.
68 posted on 07/08/2010 6:48:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fred Nerks

Some of these drawings resemble the Piasa Bird:
http://www.altonweb.com/history/piasabird/

Before anyone thinks this is simply myth, there were news reports from the 1800s concerning children picked up and carried by huge, unidentifiable birds (aka thunderbirds). Here’s a link: http://www.prairieghosts.com/thunderbirds.html

Way cool photos, Fred. Thanks for sharing. Wish I could see them in situ!


69 posted on 07/18/2010 1:32:40 PM PDT by Greenperson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

They thought Troy was a myth, too, until they found it.


70 posted on 07/18/2010 1:33:45 PM PDT by Greenperson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Greenperson
They thought Troy was a myth, too, until they found it.

Okay. And what do you conclude based on that evidence? That the existence of the myth is sufficient to assume the existence of the creature?

71 posted on 07/18/2010 1:53:20 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

I conclude that one must look at all evidence with an open mind. Myths may indeed be myths. On the other hand, myths may be based upon actual events. Pictographs may be works of imaginative art. On the other hand, they may be representations of living creatures, actually seen and hunted by the artist.

“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

Open mind.


72 posted on 07/18/2010 2:18:16 PM PDT by Greenperson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Greenperson
Pictographs may be works of imaginative art. On the other hand, they may be representations of living creatures, actually seen and hunted by the artist.

Or they may be something in between - an imaginative artists rendering based on observed fossil remains.

We can find the fossilized remains of Stegosaurus. If they lived with, and were hunted by men, where are the fossilized remains of those men?

73 posted on 07/18/2010 2:27:02 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

I don’t remember stating that any man (or woman) lived with (now that WOULD be dangerous) or hunted a Stegosaurus. You do know, however, that fossils are RARE items? Indeed the vast majority of creatures don’t end up fossilized.

Are you sure that’s a pictograph of a Stegosaurus? Looks more Robocop riding a rhino.


74 posted on 07/18/2010 2:49:13 PM PDT by Greenperson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: Greenperson

The post was part of a respone/reply thread that started with the first post of the thread. That’s where the asertion that Stegosaurus live with, and was hunted by people started.


75 posted on 07/18/2010 2:57:59 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: Greenperson

The Piasa Bird (pronounced Pie-a-saw), is a local legend in the Alton area. Its foundings go back to 1673 when Father Jacques Marquette, in recording his famous journey down the Mississippi River with Louis Joliet, described the "Piasa" as a birdlike monster painted high on the bluffs along the Mississippi River, where the city of Alton, Illinois now stands.

According to the diary, the Piasa "was as large as a calf with horns like a deer, red eyes, a beard like a tiger's, a face like a man, the body covered with green, red and black scales and a tail so long it passed around the body, over the head and between the legs."

thanks for the link, it looks like another version of the 'water-monster' doesn't it?

76 posted on 07/18/2010 4:15:35 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Fred Nerks

Thanks for posting the photo. I don’t know how to do it or I would have. I’ve always been struck by how much the Piasa resembles creatures from other cultures. The story goes that the Piasa was a bird (a flying dragon? a thunderbird?). If it was a water monster, it could fly, as well as swim. Alton, IL, is on what’s known as The Great River Road because the highway follows the wide Mississippi River next to high limestone bluffs. The Piasa bird can be seen from the highway, painted on the pallisades.


77 posted on 07/18/2010 7:06:08 PM PDT by Greenperson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: Greenperson

..there be dragons...

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=214751458&blogId=340590846


78 posted on 07/18/2010 8:08:23 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-78 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson