Posted on 07/14/2010 12:47:36 AM PDT by Judith Anne
I have two dogs, a mastiff, and a minpin. The minpin is 14 years old, blind, and has been officially diagnosed with a brain tumor accompanied by epilepsy about 7 months ago, although the epilepsy started before that, and a brain tumor was suspected.
It's not as bad as it sounds, for her. She started having seizures about once a month, and the vet said they would increase in frequency. Due to her age, no treatment was judged likely to help much, for very long. He said her lifespan would depend on how fast it grew, and how well she tolerated the changes. She's been doing very well until July 4, when she suddenly went blind.
The seizures have become more frequent, about twice a week, but they've gotten milder. I pick her up and take her outside about 4 times a day, and she is able to find and eat her food and drink water in her crate with no problem. I keep her in her crate most of the time now, because she seems happy there, or on my lap, and to keep her safe from being hurt during a seizure. The seizure meds don't help.
I'm not explaining this very well, I hope it's clear enough. Anyway, she's been with me since she was a pup, and since she is not suffering I can't bring myself to have her put down. I've decided to take care of her until she goes.
This is a dainty and beautiful tiny dog. She "mothered" the mastiff when we brought him home 6 1/2 years ago; she has been a faithful little shadow to me, all her life.
She has "accidents" now, but it's no fuss to clean up, I have several cushions I rotate through the laundry, and usually manage to get her outdoors often enough.
The problem now is some odd behavior: She has been vigorously digging in her pillows, sometimes for an hour at a time, about three times a day. She's too weak and small to damage the pillows; but it's surprisingly noisy, esp at night. I have told her to stop, and for a second or two, she does. Then starts up again. She also walks in tight circles for 10-15 minutes at a time. Plus, she has totally stopped barking, which is uncharacteristic for her.
I am assuming that these are behaviors related to the tumor; could these behaviors be a type of seizure? The meds we tried completely knocked her out, or didn't work at all.
Again, she doesn't seem to be in pain, still eats and goes to the BR outside, except for more frequent accidents.
Is it time? Any suggestions? I'm willing to keep her with me until she goes, but I do not want to make her suffer...
Yes, they are, very dainty for all their resemblance to a the doberman pinscher! Both breeds are elegant in form, if not also a little intimidating when they want to be.
I’m so sorry about your friends and pets. I’m not a veterinarian, but I think the trembling may indicate pain. I have watched two people waiting, trying to stay alive until a loved on arrived on their flight. Though they were in tremendous pain, the held on by sheer will power. All through their waits, they trembled. I am crying as I write this. Please understand your pets loved you—I ask you not to let them go through pain because of indecision.
I have decided. As long as she is eating, I’ll wait a couple of weeks for my son and daughter in law so they can drive us to the vet. She doesn’t tremble in her crate (except during a seizure), I think that’s because she feels safe to move around even though she cannot see, she knows where everything is, food, water, pillows, door, etc. It’s a huge crate, I didn’t use it much at all until she went blind last weekend.
Judith Anne, I know you and I have had our differences on the RF, but I nursed my dog, 14 years old also, while he had cancer, up to his death in October, 2007, so I have some notion of what you’re going through. I couldn’t put him down, he loved me so and I him. He was happy and comfortable, I made sure of that, and it wasn’t the cancer that ultimately caused his death.
There are things you can do to slow the growth of tumors that aren’t that expensive. The tumor probably isn’t a glioma, it’s coming on too slowly for that, imho. Anti-inflammatories will probably help. There are numerous possibilities. I used Metacam at a higher, “off label” dosage under the supervision of a sympathetic vet. Metacam is an NSAID, (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug), and can work wonders for pain and inflammation.
Caution is in order, though. Some small percentage of dogs do not react well to Metacam, there is a risk and the first day it’s used needs to be set aside for observation of the dog. If anything untoward appears to be happening, especially blood in the urine or stool, treatment needs to be ceased immediately and get to the vet right away. You’ll need to be watchful for this for the duration of treatment. Do take the warnings on the label seriously, they’re dead serious, and under no circumstances should you use any other NSAID or aspirin in combination, it’s fatal. But, it did help my boy, helped keep him happy and comfortable.
An holistic vet familiar with herbal treatments and accupuncture (don’t laugh, it was very helpful for mobility with mine, and cheap, $25 per treatment) would be a good thing to seek out. Herbal anti-inflammatories can be used in conjunction with NSAIDs whereas no other NSAID or even aspirin can be used together. You’d be surprised what is beneficial, and you’d be surprised how advanced the Chinese have been with this for a very long time.
A gradual change in diet (with an older dog, very gradual) can be another godsend. I chose Innova Evo, canned. He loved it, his coat came in so shiny, his eyes bright. That was just my choice, there are many others out there, or you can even cook your own, but get the grain out of the diet, only leaving brown rice if grain needs to be included. The thought is that high protien is the way to go, with carbs “feeding” the growth.
Good luck with seeing your baby through on God’s time, I know the bittersweet ordeal myself. It just didn’t seem to be my decision to make, and I couldn’t violate the trust he had in me. He passed away at the only home he ever knew with his head in my lap.
I still miss him, always will. If you’d care to FReepmail me, I can share some links and such.
I don’t care about our differences at a time like this.
FYI, I’ve been giving her raw beef cut up in tiny pieces or fresh raw hamburger three times a day, she LOVES it, plus her treats. She likes to drag a ham hock around her crate until it is nearly gone, and she has one now, buried under the pillows where the mastiff can smell it, but not see it. I cut her raw meat into tiny pieces because she almost choked on a larger piece one time.
Outside, she stands and trembles until her business is done; won’t walk anywhere in the grass due to being blind I guess. In her crate, she’ll move around because it’s familiar territory, and she doesn’t tremble then except during a seizure.
Reg, I’m praying she goes in her sleep before my family comes in a couple of weeks. I’ll post it on this thread if she does.
The two dogs have actually saved my life, twice. My husband died of cancer here at home in 2007, the dogs grieved with me, but still needed to be fed, walked, let in and out, petted, groomed, etc. They literally kept me going while I was crazed with grief. Then, after my heart attack, I stayed with my son and his family for a while, and he brought the dogs into their home; I had to walk them, clean up after them, groom them, feed them, etc. My son said if anything happened to me, he’d give them away to a good home. I was horrified, and determined to recover. No one could appreciate them the way I do!
Thanks for telling me how you managed things with a beloved dog. What a bond they weave into our lives...little strings attached to our hearts...
My wildly beloved old Minny went through similar symptoms in 1997 and eventually died from it 8 years ago and no one ever knew what it was.
The diagnoses ran from strokes, epilepsy, brain tumors and everything else under the sun.
Turned out to be undiagnosed/untreated Lyme disease [aka “The Great Mimic”] which was unheard of here at the time but *rampant* where she’d been born in 1989...NJ.
She passed away in 2002 after a cortisone shot for her alleged “stroke” completely crashed her immune system, allowing the Lyme to finally overwhelm her.
Less than a year later, her 4 year old nephew [born and lived in the swamps of SC until he was 6 months old] had the exact same symptoms and the new vet immediately tested him for Lyme...and he was positive.
Two months on Doxycline ended it and he’s been fine as frog hair for the last 9 years.
How was the “brain tumor” diagnosed?
Lyme can cause ‘cysts’, scarring and inflammation in the brain that *could* appear as a tumor.
I’m just throwing this out here in hopes of helping your baby.
Whatever it is, I will pray for you all and my thoughts are with you.
My pomeranian died last month after turning 16. Not to elaborate on his condition,but he grew progressively worse over a week’s time. The problem was, due to the trauma he suffered on his last vet’s visit, and his heart and lung condition,another visit would likely have killed him. On this,the vet and I were agreed. So for over a year,no vet’s visits. We fed him prescription dog food, and he acted pretty normal during this period. We couldn’t lift him any longer, because that was too painful for him. He couldn’t be lured into his pet cage either. Should we try take him to the vet,knowing this would hurt him? Well,Monday morning June 7 we found dead on the living room floor in a sleep position. So, I had to handle my own dead dog in order to take him to the vet for disposal. This was something I had braced myself for,99% certain for sometime he would die at home, but still it was hard to do. At least,he died in his sleep,and we gave him the home he might not have had.
The vet (a very nice young lady) looked in her eyes, said she needed an x-ray, it was seen then. When the seizures first started, she said that was the likeliest cause at her age. She’s never been tested for lyme, I could get that done, couldn’t hurt. But she does have a brain tumor, it’s a mass, and not round.
Thanks thanks thanks everyone, so very much. The kids don’t like to see me emotional, so I don’t talk with them about her much.
It really helps to hear other people’s stories; I don’t mean to be macabre, just knowing how other people got through it, ideas for helping her, facing the end with other people who understand, means so much to me.
Thanks. Thanks.
.....Is it time? Any suggestions? I'm willing to keep her with me until she goes, but I do not want to make her suffer...
This is just my experience. When my dog was 16 years old, outside he would walk in circles, they would get tighter and tighter. At times I'd interrupt him so he would change directions or I would walk inside his circle in such a way that would force him to walk in a better straighter line. There were times when in the house he'd go into the bathroom and get stuck beside the toilet and wall. I'm not sure why he'd do this but someone else with an older dog told me that her dog did this too, kinda walk into a corner and just stay there.
As to the stopping barking, maybe there's something wrong with her throat. I was always convinced that there was something wrong with my dog's throat. The vet ignored that no matter how many times I begged her to check it. Vet said that maybe he just didn't have the need, or want to bark. One night he got stuck on some boxes in a back room. A strange sound woke me up. I don't know how I could possibly have heard that sound considering the distance the was from me and the sound was not loud. Turns out that that sound was him barking. I gathered he had lost his vocal chords.
Maybe your dog is in a stage of life where she feels she no longer needs to bark. That she's on retirement and the other dog should take up the barking... like passing the baton.
As to the digging at pillows, I'd say let her do it. I'd consider that as her getting exercise. Older people develop strange habits, no reason a dog shouldn't also. Also, as older people go back to their childhood, she may be thinking she's back at being a puppy and is digging for voles in the garden. Just make sure she has no chance of hurting herself while she's doing it. I'm not sure how digging at pillows can be loud, maybe give her towels to dig at?
Indoor accidents happen. For my dog who weak as he was refused to wear a diaper, I made him a bathroom section in the living room. Thick plastic placed on the floor, covered that with cardboard and topped that with wee wee pads. I bought wee wee pads by the case and changed the ones that were soiled. When my dog was no longer to get up by himself, I'd help him up every four hours and lead him to this spot. I didn't want him to suffer from UTI.
Is it time? Only you will know. Your dog will let you know. You'll just know. I don't know how to explain this. It's a gut feeling. My dog passed away in my arms, at home.
Love your dog, talk to her, remind her of the fun times and other pets and people she knew. Watch her reactions, you'll be quite surprised. Ask her what she wants, explain things to her. I did this with my dog. I received most of the answers through my dreams or had "gut" feeling answers. I felt I got to know my dog best through the last six months of his life.
What’s really odd (and kind of funny, too!) is that the kids just had a family conference with me, and they have decided I’ll go live with my son, daughter in law and grandkids for the winter. Nobody wants me on my own in the country for another winter. So, I’m losing my independence for the winter at least, plus my dog. Heck, darn, rats, shoot, nuts!
They’re afraid I will pass away, and the mastiff will eat me, LOL! I said, if I do, I won’t care if he does. But daughter said it would be hard to find a good home for him after that...she was joking, but they were also serious. Them digging the grave for the minpin was kind of symbolic, in a way.
I had a brain tumor. I can tell you what it’s like.
Among other things, they cause headaches. One of which lasted for almost 3 months non-stop. Every second for almost 3 months. It hurt, and I suffered for a very long time, almost 2 years. (Long story.)
I had my old Mickey dog put down many years ago. She was a Border Collie mix that I had gotten as a small pup. She lived to be 14 1/2. She was my BEST FRIEND.
I drove her to the vet, myself, and held her while she was put to sleep. It was the one of the hardest things I have ever had to endure in my life. (I had my support group follow me there though.)
Mickey wasn’t on her death bed. Over the last 6 months of her life, her health declined. She went mostly blind. She needed help getting up and down the porch steps. She couldn’t hold her poop in (would just fall out where she slept). She would get “lost” right there in the house and bark for my help.
She wasn’t in severe pain or on her death bed.
**She had NO QUALITY OF LIFE anymore though.**
I loved my dog enough to spare her from her mere existence, hard as it was.
After going through my own health problems years later, I can only say that what I did for my old Mickey dog was true love. There’s a huge difference between living and existing.
p.s. I took Mickey to the GA mountains (where we used to live) for a fun-filled weekend, and I fed her moon pies and Big Macs, something she was never allowed to eat before. On the way to the vet I pulled over, shaking and choked up so bad I could barely breathe, and asked how I could drive my best friend to be killed. But I looked at my dog, my best friend, and I knew that waiting would not make her life better, only worse. It was hard, but it was the right thing to do.
p.p.s. My tumor was removed 9 years ago. I have only existed since then, not lived. It’s been no life, just misery. I look forward to my day of “release”.
I did play with her for a good while this evening, our game of me hiding hamburger in my hand, and her going after it until she “wins.” In the crate, I do have puppy pads, but she usually pees on the pillow, so I have several I rotate through the laundry.
I like your ideas. She quit barking when she went blind last weekend. I didn’t notice right away that she was silent...she seems to feel safe in the crate (it’s really large) and gets around okay in there, knows where everything is. The mastiff almost never barks, he’ll growl if there’s a strange car in the drive, but only barks for the grandkids or a stray dog outside. He does “talk,” though.
I’m so sorry.
I truly hope things go as easily as possible for you all, considering....:(
My heart just breaks for you. Hugging you in prayers.
Isn't that the truth.
Well, thanks, but I’m generally ok. I get a bit worked up on the Relgion Forum, but hey! Don’t we all.
I am so very sorry for your pain.
I will light a candle for you this morning.
I just lost my favorite Siamese cat Memorial Day Weekend.
He had a horrible cancerous tumor growing in his mouth, and when it broke open and started bleeding, I knew time was short.
When they stop eating, that seems to be the time...
I fall apart over dog stories.
FWIW, I’m still grieving for a Dobermann who died in 1984 and Minny who died in 2002.
Am I crazy?
Probably...but they were both suddenly and “impossibly” sent to me when God knew I needed them most.
They both saved me when everything in my life made it not worth living, anymore.
It’s extremely hard to lose the only things who kept you going when you really had no reason to go on.
And so, that’s why I’ll always have dogs.
They may think they need me but the truth is that I need them.
You’re doing a lot better with your situation than I did...I admire you for that.
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