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Para-ordnance P12

Posted on 07/24/2010 6:55:21 PM PDT by blackbart.223

I have a Para-Ordnance P12. There are some that claim they have trouble with jams. I never had a problem with mine. Any comments?


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1 posted on 07/24/2010 6:55:22 PM PDT by blackbart.223
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To: blackbart.223

I have an older version, a P13 with the Para-Ordnance lower and a Colt Series 70 upper. No problems at all.


2 posted on 07/24/2010 7:19:55 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: blackbart.223

I used to have one, it DID jam and had to be sent back to get worked on!

I got rid of it.


3 posted on 07/24/2010 7:28:11 PM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: blackbart.223
it that one of the ones without the beaver tail, does it bite???

the .45 carry 12 is likely me next purchase

4 posted on 07/24/2010 7:28:37 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: blackbart.223
My humble input:

1. It's too heavy for my taste, though relatively light for a 1911 variant.

2. about 75% of these ParaOrdnance pistols shoot without problems and if you have one of those, it's a bargain. However, some of them DO jam. It's a "quick and good enough" manufacturing method...so get yours to the range and put NO LESS than 200 rds through it. If you have not problems, you got a good one.

I like the original Colt Officers' Model 1911. And while I like .45 1911's, they are dated (yes, I think John Moses Browning should have a 30ft statue on the Capitol Mall in DC) and prefer, above all, the modern .45s.

Beretta. Sig, HK etc.

5 posted on 07/24/2010 7:31:34 PM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: blackbart.223

Sometimes on a 1911, it becomes finicky about the type of ammo you feed it. Try to feed it something like a truncated cone or a hollow point round, it fails to feed. Feed it 230gr ball, and it might work just fine.

Sometimes, it can be the lips on the mag and how the mag presents the round to the feed ramp.


6 posted on 07/24/2010 7:31:59 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: blackbart.223

I’ve had a P12, a regular single-stack LDA Limited, and a Warthog. The only one that had problems was the warthog and I think I caused them by having small hands. I have problems with short barrel .45’s. The P12 I had was problem free.


7 posted on 07/24/2010 7:43:22 PM PDT by Dayman
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To: blackbart.223

Never. It is my primary.


8 posted on 07/24/2010 7:44:53 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Dayman
"The P12 I had was problem free."

So is mine. I never feed anything into it but 230gr fmj's.

9 posted on 07/24/2010 7:50:11 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Chode
"It that one of the ones without the beaver tail, does it bite??? "

Yes and no.

10 posted on 07/24/2010 7:54:22 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Mariner
"so get yours to the range and put NO LESS than 200 rds through it."

I took to a tactical pistol course. Two hundred and fifty rounds. I did have to clear it once but overall that isn't too bad.

11 posted on 07/24/2010 8:02:11 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223
thx... now they are American made too
12 posted on 07/24/2010 8:03:48 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: NVDave

Debur and polish, debur and polish. When you’re positive you’ve got it all perfect, polish everything 3 more times. If you really know what you’re doing(or don’t mind damaging a few parts and starting over with new ones if you screw up) you can alter the bevels on the extractor and the slope of the feed ramp...ever so slightly. Then polish 3 more times.

Then take it to a range and shoot 500 rounds through it. This might take awhile. Then take it apart and inspect all the wear points, clean until spotless, and re-polish where necessary.

Then shoot another 500 rounds and clean until spotless

If it still jams, get rid of it.

My experience is that most jamming problems can be cured with an extensive break in procedure...assuming it’s not a faulty magazine. 1911s are notorious for requiring much more break-in effort than other pistol designs.


13 posted on 07/24/2010 8:10:18 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: blackbart.223

Shorty 1911’s can be finicky. My experience seems to indicate that 100% reliability came with either Commander(4” to 4 1/4” guns,) or full size guns. There are some reliable short guns around, though. It may take a little tuning, or you may have the right ammo already, Ammo, magazine lips, feed ramp, are some of the areas that sometimes need to be looked at. The short 1911’s have a shorter stroke, stiffer springs to make up for a lighter slide, so the return stroke is faster. All those things can make the shorty guns a bit more cranky.


14 posted on 07/24/2010 8:16:00 PM PDT by Quickgun (As a former fetus, I'm opposed to abortion. Mamas don't let your cowboys grow up to be babies..)
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To: Quickgun
" All those things can make the shorty guns a bit more cranky."

So I've heard. My P12 has been very reliable. But if push comes to shove I have the Smith and Wesson model 19.

15 posted on 07/24/2010 8:22:27 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223

Mariner put it well in terms of my own experience. Para’s quality control is not very good. I understand that they’re trying to maintain price point, but IMO, it’s realtively easy to explain a small price increase because of increased material cost. Apologies in the face of failure result in permanent loss of business.


16 posted on 07/24/2010 8:23:35 PM PDT by sig226 (Bring back Jimmy Carter!!!)
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To: sig226
I can only comment from my experience. My P12 works very well. Maybe I'm lucky.
17 posted on 07/24/2010 8:31:10 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223

It is my Brother’s only gun. He does not fire it a whole lot but says it has been completely reliable. Not sure what ammo he uses, probably the cheapest he can find.


18 posted on 07/24/2010 8:42:17 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: blackbart.223

I have a Toyota. It’s never raced out of control. You?


19 posted on 07/24/2010 8:54:55 PM PDT by KarinG1 (They should put the terror watch list online so we'd know who to drag out and feed to the gators.)
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To: blackbart.223

I’ll match skills with anyone at 45’ ... you choose your stock pistol (no match pistols) and I’ll use my little ‘ol pistol. Let’s see how it turns out.


20 posted on 07/24/2010 8:56:29 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: yarddog
"It is my Brother’s only gun. He does not fire it a whole lot but says it has been completely reliable. Not sure what ammo he uses, probably the cheapest he can find.

I only use 230 gr FMJ because that what the gun was designed for.

21 posted on 07/24/2010 9:12:46 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: KarinG1
"I have a Toyota. It’s never raced out of control. You?"

Dodge Ram.A good truck in my opinion.

22 posted on 07/24/2010 9:18:30 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Mariner

“And while I like .45 1911’s, they are dated”

I prefer to think of them as timeless.....

Flawless service for nearly 100 years, and the pistol of choice for most Special Operations Military guys......

Good enough recomendation for me!


23 posted on 07/24/2010 9:24:29 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (One aspect of the information age is the acceptance as fact of the uninformed opinion)
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To: NVDave; blackbart.223

Zactly.

Sometimes a gun needs a little work on the ramp and you have to know what works in yours.

My Kimber loves everything and after 4000 rounds I had only one stove pipe on me.

I figured out why, the other day and shouldn’t happen again.

My Colt 1911 doesn’t care for hollow points and I haven’t gotten around to getting that fixed, because I love the Kimber.


24 posted on 07/24/2010 9:26:12 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Forty-Niner
"Flawless service for nearly 100 years, and the pistol of choice for most Special Operations Military guys......

If it isn't broke don't fix it.

25 posted on 07/24/2010 9:29:37 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Forty-Niner
"Flawless service for nearly 100 years, and the pistol of choice for most Special Operations Military guys......"

The .45 is the CALIBER of choice for Specops, but NOT the 1911 variety.

H&K and like modern DA pistols get the nod.

26 posted on 07/24/2010 9:32:22 PM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: blackbart.223

“If it isn’t broke don’t fix it.”

Got that right.... My Colt .45 it keeps me alive! (ACP that is)


27 posted on 07/24/2010 9:32:47 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (One aspect of the information age is the acceptance as fact of the uninformed opinion)
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To: mamelukesabre

Wow. A lot of work.

I think I will just buy a Ruger.

Load bullets, pull the trigger, bang - first time, every time.

Reloads, good ammo, you name it.


28 posted on 07/24/2010 9:34:27 PM PDT by Frantzie (Democrats = Party of I*lam)
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To: blackbart.223
My buddy has the 9mm Para Ordnance Taurus. The thing is absolutely bulletproof. Never jams, even with cheapo ammo. He loaned it to me for a little more than a year a while back, and I absolutely loved it. What a machine. Thousands of rounds, never once jammed.

;-/

29 posted on 07/24/2010 9:34:58 PM PDT by Gargantua (The "Second Death")
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To: Vendome
"My Colt 1911 doesn’t care for hollow points"

In my opinion most jam problems with 1911 pistols is using the wrong ammo. If you want to use hollow points stick with a revolver. No jams there.

30 posted on 07/24/2010 9:37:18 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223
My buddy has the 9mm Para Ordnance Taurus. The thing is absolutely bulletproof. Never jams, even with cheapo ammo. He loaned it to me for a little more than a year a while back, and I absolutely loved it. What a machine. Thousands of rounds, never once jammed.

;-/

31 posted on 07/24/2010 9:38:16 PM PDT by Gargantua (The "Second Death")
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To: Frantzie
"I think I will just buy a Ruger."

Which model? A revolver I assume.

32 posted on 07/24/2010 9:44:32 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Mariner

“The .45 is the CALIBER of choice for Specops,, but NOT the 1911 variety.”

Sorry to dispute that, but Marine Corps Armory guys build a SOC pistol from existing 1911A1 stocks that is in very high demand among the MEB SOC troops, so much so that they have always been way behind meeting that demand.

Any combat veteran will tell you (well most will tell you) that the 1911A1 is king.


33 posted on 07/24/2010 9:45:40 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (One aspect of the information age is the acceptance as fact of the uninformed opinion)
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To: blackbart.223

Kinda sorta true. My brother has an XD. It didn’t care for hollow points.

Thing is, it is important to him to have hollows.

Took it to a gun smith, polish it.

Shot it, with hollows. I thought a couple of jams on 500 was okay, but then again, I have none on the Kimber.

He wasn’t satisfied.

Took it back to the gun smith, polished again.

Ran 500 rounds through it, zero failure. Cleaned it.

Took it out again, ran 500 through it, no problemo and now he is happy the gun will perform it’s intended function.

Sometimes you have to do some work on a gun to get what you want out of it, exactly.

My 770? Love it, except the butt plate. After only a few rounds, I was flinching and thinking this cheap ass piece of rubber must have come off a tractor.

It was throwing my rounds off by 5”, due to the flinching. It really hurt and I was surprised, since I had shot many other weapons with steel butts and no problemo.

Went and got a slip over butt extender and got my groups back down to 1” but I hated that cheap ass looking slip over.

Spent $70 on a nice extender and it just plain feels better.

I am thinking about getting a cheek weld, as I don’t care for how I have to shift around to get it right.’

But, other than that, I am now happy with the setup and my Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x40mm. (couldn’t stand that cheapass scope that came with rifle. Tossed it in storage, if I ever neeeeeed it. Not)

Love it!


34 posted on 07/24/2010 9:53:34 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Forty-Niner

John Moses Browning was a genius at gun design. The fifty caliber heavy machine gun is still in use today. So is the 1911A1.


35 posted on 07/24/2010 9:53:34 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Forty-Niner

1911A1 is king. But, if you want to take some skin off a knuckle chamber a Kimber.

That spring is pretty damn stiff compared to my 1911 and I like em both.


36 posted on 07/24/2010 9:56:58 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Vendome
"Thing is, it is important to him to have hollows."

Why?

37 posted on 07/24/2010 9:57:02 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: blackbart.223

‘Spansion...

double tap, cavitation.


38 posted on 07/24/2010 9:58:14 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Quickgun

The cartridge path has got to be SLICKER-N-SNOT.


39 posted on 07/24/2010 10:00:47 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: Mariner

“The .45 is the CALIBER of choice for Specops, but NOT the 1911 variety.”

LAPD likes em too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEU(SOC)_pistol


40 posted on 07/24/2010 10:01:42 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (One aspect of the information age is the acceptance as fact of the uninformed opinion)
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To: blackbart.223

“John Moses Browning was a genius at gun design. The fifty caliber heavy machine gun is still in use today. So is the 1911A1.”

Not to mention my Superposed over and under shotgun ....over 40 years old, almost no bluing left, shoots like a dream......

John Moses Browing should have a statue in the NAtional Mall (wouldn’t that give the Liberals fits! LOLOLOLOL)


41 posted on 07/24/2010 10:05:49 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (One aspect of the information age is the acceptance as fact of the uninformed opinion)
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To: Forty-Niner

There are frames in the USMC inventory that have had as many as 500,000 rounds fired through them...

I don’t know. At some point I would just chuck it and get another one.


42 posted on 07/24/2010 10:05:49 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: blackbart.223

I have an old P85 9mm semi-auto. Not fancy but incredibly reliable.


43 posted on 07/24/2010 10:07:18 PM PDT by Frantzie (Democrats = Party of I*lam)
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To: Vendome
"Spansion..."

That only works if the bullet attains 1300 fps. Slow moving large caliber rounds can cause as much damage if not more.

44 posted on 07/24/2010 10:08:22 PM PDT by blackbart.223 (I live in Northern Nevada. Reid doesn't represent me.)
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To: Forty-Niner

Hmmm...


45 posted on 07/24/2010 10:08:39 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Chode

I’m liking my Taurus .45 DSS. Mag holds twelve and one up the spout ... single-double. Very nice weapon. So far over 100 through it without a jam or problem. No reloads though.


46 posted on 07/24/2010 10:08:53 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Mormons, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: Vendome

“There are frames in the USMC inventory that have had as many as 500,000 rounds fired through them...

I don’t know. At some point I would just chuck it and get another one.”.............

True, and I’m sure a few go that way. Still it is a testiment to, as another poster wrote, John Browning’s genius. I understand that the Marines are buying new manufacture 1911A1s on the commercial market to help fill demand within the ranks.


47 posted on 07/24/2010 10:09:36 PM PDT by Forty-Niner (One aspect of the information age is the acceptance as fact of the uninformed opinion)
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To: blackbart.223

Really? Wonder why they teach that in bad ass school for the U.S. services, IDF and Mossad.

There is even another version called the Mozambique Drill, which is also taught, though employed rarely.


48 posted on 07/24/2010 10:12:06 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: MHGinTN

How much is that? Like $400 or so? (I am guessing. I saw one a couple of weeks ago and that is my recollection)


49 posted on 07/24/2010 10:13:26 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: blackbart.223

Besides, Hollow points are just plain better than FMJ.


50 posted on 07/24/2010 10:14:35 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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