Posted on 01/18/2011 2:13:15 PM PST by BigReb555
“x to gunnyg
all the facts/truth we need...
Looks like all the facts you need are myths and lies and at best half-truths.”
******************
....more readers have by now googled DiLorenzo than those have googled x...
stout lads those googlers, thinkers...
“Admin moderator: Why do you let self admitted trolls and leftist agitators stay on FR? Just curious...”
I think it is because if you were to check my posting history you’d find that I admitted to being a Troll™ from almost the very beginning of my time here and more importantly that I have never trolled anyone on this board in the manner of what presently defines troll activity i.e.obnoxious little liars that cannot post without attacking other posters and use foul language as a crutch for a real opinion.
Or it could be that when one particular member of the Neo-Confederate Klaven claimed I had never so much as even seen the inside of a military recruiting office much less earned the Title MARINE, I provided proof and that proof was backed up by some of the more prominent members of this forum.
Or it could be that over the years I have supported causes on this board and even traveled to DC in support of our veterans and our conservative beliefs.
Or it could be that unlike you I actually am not at all snarky and repugnant when debating an issue, I don’t attack people for their views I push forward with my own opinions.
That you still cling to that democrat controlled rebellion against the United States of America for the purposes of maintaining their right to enslave any human is a testament to how benevolent this board is, because quite frankly you support the most repugnant politics this nation has ever endured.
As I understand it your present solution is since you cannot debate the politics of the Civil war without melting down into a puddle of man goo, is that you have appealed to the Moderators to remove anyone you cannot best in the Arena of opinions by branding them a troll and encouraging them to use the Zot.
That is almost as shameful as threatening to expose all my personal information so that some sort of shenanigans might befall me in real life if I didn’t stop posting these threads...
There you go with the hystrionics again. Nobody, I mean absolutely nobody, ever threatened you in this manner. Why do you keep repeating this falsehood?
“I would honor Robert E. Lee for good sportsmanship, if I could. Very few people took defeat, and the terms of Reconstruction following the Civil War, or any war, for that matter, as well as he did. I personally think we should emphasize him for some points, because generally, a lot of people seem to have forgotten good sportsmanship nowadays. Robert E. Lee wasn’t all bad, and some of his better virtues we have a serious need for nowadays.”
So, you would honor as good sportsmanship the attempts by Robert E. Lee and his wife to have Congress evict and remove upwards of 20,000 U.S. Soldiers from their graves at Arlington House, after he gave orders to kill them in his insurrection, so they could resume ownership of Arlington House and would not be disturbed by the sight of the graveyard as they reminisced about the good old days they enjoyed being served by the slaves on the plantation. So, you would also honor as good sportsmanship the way in which Robert E. Lee’s ingratitude for not being prosecuted for treason and hanged was expressed when he later regretted his decision to surrender at Appomattox instead of continuing a guerrilla war under the black flag and all of the death and destruction which would have ensued. You would no less honor the sportsmanship employed by Robert E. Lee when he personally ordered and watched as an unarmed and defenseless young female slave was whipped with twenty lashes and her wounds further tortured with salt brine.
Because it is true, of course, I even agree to meet with them so that they could kill me.
They backed out saying my blood wasn’t worth their effort.
Let’s just say it is a test of our resolve, I had nothing to lose at the time except for my life and long ago I wrote a blank check to this nation to give that life at any time to preserve the United States of America.
Actually I am saner than even I believe, it is part of an inner peace you can only find when you have faced your own demise and survived....
But let me say a few words about Robert E. Lee since after all this thread is about him and was not created solely to attack me.
I believe Lee was a great man and a giant of his day.
I also believe he choose poorly and failed to honor the obligation he swore a sacred oath to fulfill to this nation and our constitution when he choose to defend his home state of Virgina over the nation as a whole.
His prowess in battle is more the result of the failures of Union commanders to lead than his actual ability, in fact early on he was known by his own troops as “Granny Lee” because he was too hesitant to attack. Doubtlessly he saved a great many lives by his failure to act and exploit the weaknesses of union commanders.
In the end it is best said that Lee’s surrender saved the nation and that is the only reason we should honor him, he knew when to quit.
What a drama llama......
(pssst! don't post yourself all over the interwebz and then whine about it when you're found)
I would have to agree, since it is the habit of despicable degenerates to take indecent advantage of such admissions in scurrilous and slanderous fashion.
The degenerate was your little fat buddy, usmcobra. He was in full attack mode on that particular thread and got exacty what he deserved. Even as recent as yesterday the little degenerate posted "I even agree to meet with them so that they could kill me."
If that ain't the mind of a degenerate at work I don't know what is.
BTW, where's the slander in posting a link to somebodies website?
Finally, you can tell a lot about a person by the company he keeps and since you and mike are so tight there must be a lot of similarity between the two of you.
Oh, one more thing, did you post this: "You don’t agree that raising the level of discourse is a worthy goal?"
Yes I did. It is more than a pity that its meaning is lost on you.
Perhaps you should lead by example.
(we won't be holding our breaths)
*snicker*
lol
;-)
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/historical_information/arlington_house.html
I suggest you check your sources, because the above source is the official military reference on the History of Arlington National Cemetery. In addition, whether or not you like it, graveyard placement happens. Even more than the 20,000 exhumed bodies happened for various cemeteries in the 1930s with the construction of new hydroelectric dams, and the rising water which came as a result.
"In December 1882, the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, returned the property to Custis Lee, stating that it had been confiscated without due process."
"On March 3, 1883, the Congress purchased the property from Lee for $150,000. It became a military reservation, and Freedman's Village, but not the graves, was removed."
I have studied Lee and thought I would make the following observations.
First on the terms that Grant offered. Imagine those terms offered to Sherman if he was defeated on his march to the sea. It would not have happened. More than likely, he would have been hanged on the spot and rightly so. (Although I would add that if Sherman did not give the keys of Atlanta to Lincoln, the south might have prevailed. That victory gave Lincoln the support to win the 1864 election. If he would have lost, McClellan, the peace candidate would in all likelihood, ended the war and gave the south its independence.)
Since Lee always conducted himself with honor on the battlefield it was easy for Grant to offer him such gracious terms.
Second on Arlington, the US government confiscated the property in 1864 for unpaid taxes of $92. They did not allow agents to pay for these taxes, it had to be by the land owners. Lee of course could not do this and Lee’s wife was wheel chair bound by 1861. Gen Montgomery Meigs, who despised Lee, made it his personal mission to make Arlington inhabitable. He ordered the burial of union soldiers on site. When he came to inspect these graves he was sorely disappointed that they were so far away from the house. (They were buried near where the Marine Monument is today.) He actually had those bodies dug up and placed in the rose garden that was very near Lee’s home. Thus successfully making the home for all practical purposes, unlivable. However, in 1883 Custis Lee (Lee’s son) sued the government and won the property back much to the chagrin of Meigs. He then sold it back to the government at $150,000 in a signing ceremony with Robert Todd Lincoln.
I have never heard anything about Lee’s father in law willing it to the US and the link the poster gave above is invalid.
Third on slavery. It appears Lee never purchased a slave in his life. He did inherit about 6 from his mother’s estate but it appears they were all freed by 1851. When his father in law died, 200 slaves were involved in the estate on three plantations. There were four executors of the will. However, all were disqualified except for Lee. This was not a task Lee wanted and even stated that the task was close to an impossibility. The reason was a poorly written will. The will stated that the slaves were to be freed when all the debts were settled or five years regardless. The estate was in a financial mess. It was in the red. His father in law also stipulated large sums to given to his heirs. The money was not there. Lee started by spending his own money repairing the slaves quarters. He was hoping if they were happy, then they would help him turn things around and gain their freedom faster. (The father in law ran a rather loose ship. He did not expect his slaves to really do that much and most were just growing food for their own use. He also told then when he was alive that he would free them after he died. Again, this put Lee in a tough spot.)
The slaves did not like what Lee was doing. They thought they should be freed immediately. Lee did hire out some slaves he thought were trouble makers. This really upset the slaves. It broke up families and left them highly demoralized. It appears Lee used this as a type of punishment and even went as far as to not let them get together over Christmas which was a common practice to allow. (One of these slaves he hired out was Wesley Norris.)
He developed a slave runaway problem. Lee aggressively pursued the runaways. One runaway was Wesley Norris. He was captured and returned to Lee.
The account posted above by Wesley Norris ran in an anti-slavery magazine in 1866. Other papers also ran similar stories. Here are the pros and cons of Norris’ statement:
The account is credible. The dates and names are verifiable. It was also Virginia law that captured slaves were to be whipped. Lee did offer rewards for runaways.
However, it was an article in an anti-slavery magazine. They did NOT take a picture of his back which would have been the smoking gun. Lee also denied this. (Although, you could argue that he was denying the worst part of the account, that is either the girl was whipped or that Lee personally yielded the whip when the manager refused to whip the girl. The latter was not in Norris’ account but was in the some of the others.)
I would give it 51% that Norris’ account is accurate. I do not believe that Lee personally whipped the runaway girl.
In June of 1865, when Lee was attending church at St Paul’s Episcopal in Richmond, a black man rose to the call for communion before all the whites had gone first. The preacher froze as did the congregation, except for one man. Lee went to the front and kneeled down to accept communion along with the black man. Then everything proceeded without incident.
Lastly on Lee wanting a guerilla war. This is based on this quote:
“Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand. “ — General Robert E. Lee to Governor Stockdale of Texas
Stockdale is the only source for this. He made this claim after the death of Lee. I do not know of any historian that believes this quote to actually be from Lee. However, these are from Lee:
“Abandon your animosities and make your sons Americans.” (Told to a mother who was complaining about how carpetbaggers were treating her sons.)
I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. (This was made before Virginia left the union.)
So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained. (This was stated shortly before his death.)
“Before and during the War Between the States I was a Virginian. After the war I became an American.”
Lee was a great man.
The New York Herald mentioned him for the Democratic nominee for US President. (Even though he was still under indictment for treason and was not a US citizen. His citizenship was restored... in 1975 by president Ford.)
Some of Lee admirers (very incomplete list)
Gen Winfield Scott (longest serving General in our nation’s history)
Abraham Lincoln
US Grant
Charles Francis Adams, Jr., a former Union Commander and grandson of US President John Quincy Adams
Booker T Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
Winston Churchill
Dwight Eisenhower
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