Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: whattajoke

I see that you didn’t answer MY question, either, about repeating the experiment of

Molecules to Man evolution.

Are you beginning to see the futility of an evidentiary-based argument on this topic?

Do you understand that this is actually a presuppositional argument?

Evos and creation scientists both look at the EXACT SAME EVIDENCE, that exists IN THE PRESENT, and interpret that evidence through their presuppositions, their worldview, and come to radically different conclusions. These conclusions are, for the most part, an affirmation of the presupposition that they started from.

Do you, and this is a big one, even recognize that you have presupposed assumptions that you’re basing your interpretation on? Actually, most people don’t think that way, especially if they haven’t been exposed to the idea that there are actually other presuppositional views of the world.

Again, do you see the futility of an evidentiary argument?
Most creationists, having studied BOTH presuppositional mindsets, do understand this futility. That’s why the logic based approach actually yields much more benefit, if both parties can agree to think on that level.

Given that, I’ll give you a bit of your “red meat” that you’ve asked for, but you have to actually be able to step out of your presuppositions to get it.

You asked me what allows for, or what “causes” adaption to occur and what “stops” it.

Adaptive ability was inherent in the first created kinds (species). The first creatures’ DNA and trait expressive abilities contained everything necessary for the population of that kind (lest you again accuse me of individual adaptation) to adapt to their environment (polar bears vs grizzlies & black bears, for example).

These more specialized versions of the original kinds have LESS adaptive information than their forebears :) and eventually become relatively homogeneous within their populations, and adaptation tends to cease because of the loss of broad spectrum adaptive information.

Notice the lack of “adding” of information through the mutation process. Birth defects rarely add a benefit to the species, and creatures have built in mutation detection and repair systems, so mutations, though they occur, cannot be the primary driving factor behind adaptation.

Now, the limbic part of your brain is probably shorting out. “That’s not right! That’s wrong! That’s... DANGEROUS!”.

Examine your presuppositions of evolutionary assumption:
simple to complex, adding information to the DNA by mutation, long periods of time, etc.

Now, I hope I’ve given you some insight into the creationist view of “evolution” so that you can argue without setting up straw men (though, to your credit, I didn’t see this happening with you), and perhaps see that there isn’t any “magic bullet” evidence that will “finally convince those creationists they’re wrong”.

Always keep in mind, rocks don’t talk, evidence doesn’t “speak”, they must be interpreted. And that interpretation cannot avoid being filtered through your presuppositions.


103 posted on 02/10/2011 6:13:36 AM PST by MrB (Tagline suspended for important announcement on my home page. Click my handle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies ]


To: MrB

105 posted on 02/10/2011 6:28:27 AM PST by stormer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies ]

To: MrB
As for your earlier long post, I'm not ignoring it. I debated whether I should spend the time to answer it thoroughly, but then I realized that it would be a waste of my time. If you are still asking for "evidence" and repeatable and testable experimentation regarding evolution, then you are 100 years behind the times which tells me it wouldn't matter what I suggested you read.

Every person on the planet (give or take) was a "creationist" for 100,000+ years. How in the world then that evolutionary theory "presupposes" anything is beyond me. Ask a 5 year old where we came from and he'll likely say "God" or "Adam and Eve" or "magic." He's not going to "presuppose" an evolutionary construct. Fight it until the cows come home, but the evidence for evolution grows daily. DNA and genetic advances have only strengthened the theory. There have been innumerable instances where DNA could have sunk the theory. It has tweaked bits and pieces of accepted lineages, sure, but the theory only gets stronger with each new piece of evidence.

As for your uniquely Christian subset ideas on "information" and "kinds," I really don't see the need to discuss that further. "Kinds" means nothing in biology and the canard that any change in DNA = deleterious mutation/birth defect is not going to budge.

I DO want to sincerely thank you, though, for your last couple paragraphs. Yes, evidence is up for interpretation and I'd posit that evolutionary evidence is the MOST "interpreted" because some people are threatened by it. but it doesn't care.
129 posted on 02/10/2011 10:28:49 AM PST by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson