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To: DiogenesLamp
You ended your post making the comment "Pretty much what my friend said, but with a few details not quite right."

Actually, very little of what your friend said was right.

For example, your listing of the communication between Lincoln and Chew mentions resupply but says nothing about a "supply train" as you stated.

Here is the relevant part of the message with no mention of "supply train": "I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort Sumter..."

So, your friend's assertion is not validated by your own quote:

You also listed a letter of April 4 from "Abraham Lincoln to General Anderson."

It was not Lincoln that wrote this, but SIMON CAMERON, Secretary of War. Washington, D. C., on April 4, 1861. Reference here

Anderson was not a General but a Major in the U. S. Army.

You also said:

"Lincoln dispatched a letter to the commander of Fort Sumter informing him that he would soon be attacked by the Confederates, and that he was to take all steps to reduce loss of life, hold the Fort for one day, and then surrender it, which is exactly what happened."

The actual quote makes no mention of an order to "hold the Fort for one day". See here

161 posted on 09/25/2012 1:21:46 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge
I addressed your main point in the previous message. As for your other points:

You also listed a letter of April 4 from "Abraham Lincoln to General Anderson."

Anderson was not a General but a Major in the U. S. Army.

Yes, I corrected that in subsequent messages. It was General Beauregard and Major Anderson, though Major Anderson had Previously been General Beauregard's instructor. Was in a hurry responding to the flurry of messages.

It was not Lincoln that wrote this, but SIMON CAMERON, Secretary of War. Washington, D. C., on April 4, 1861. Reference here

That's odd. My link says this:

DOCUMENT #24: Letter from Lincoln to Major Anderson, dated April 4, sent by regular mail, and arrived at Fort Sumter April 7.

SIR: Your letter of the 1st instant occasions some anxiety to the president. On the information of Captain Fox, he had supposed you could hold out till the 15th instant without any great inconvenience and had prepared an expedition to relieve you before that period.

Hoping still that you will be able to sustain yourself till the 11th or 12th instant, the expedition will go forward, and, finding your flag flying, will attempt to provision you, and in case the effort is resisted, will endeavor also to reinforce you.

You will therefore hold out, if possible, till the arrival of the expedition.

It is not, however, the intention of the President to subject your command to any danger or hardship beyond what, in your judgment, would be usual in military life; and he has entire confidence that you will act as becomes a patriot and a soldier under all circumstances.

Whenever, if at all, in your judgment, to save yourself and command, a capitulation becomes a necessity, you are authorized to make it.

I thought it was odd that Lincoln was referring to himself as "the president" but the mistake, in any case was not mine. The Link says it was a letter from Lincoln, so it is apparently mislabeled as such. I doubt any such letter authorizing capitulation was sent without Lincoln's knowledge, because he was very heavily focused on what to do about Fort Sumter at this time.

You also said:

"Lincoln dispatched a letter to the commander of Fort Sumter informing him that he would soon be attacked by the Confederates, and that he was to take all steps to reduce loss of life, hold the Fort for one day, and then surrender it, which is exactly what happened."

The actual quote makes no mention of an order to "hold the Fort for one day". See here

You are correct. Some of the details are wrong, but the general gist of it isn't. The letter implies the Fort will be attacked, and that in order to save himself and his command, he is authorized to surrender. All in all, not bad for paraphrasing what a friend told me years ago regarding a letter I had never seen prior to Monday. I distinctly recall him saying that line "hold the fort for a day, then surrender", but it appears he read that into what he said.

So, your friend's assertion is not validated by your own quote:

It was in all relevant particulars. The points you have put forth are just quibbles. By Sea, rather than by Land. Major, rather than General. By Lincoln's Secretary of War, rather than by Lincoln Personally. None of your quibbles address the heart of the matter. Did Lincoln cleverly and intentionally start the civil war? Was he deliberately engineering the outcome he got?

I think my friend (Black, with a Masters in History, and an Obsession with Race, Civil Rights, and Slavery) made a pretty good argument that Lincoln did. None of your points really addresses this argument.

For what it's worth, I didn't discuss this topic with him much because I found it disquieting to think that Lincoln, whom I had as much respect for at the time as most people, would intentionally trigger such a horrible conflict because he was trying to be clever. What could you say to someone about the tactics used to Free his people? From his perspective, any and all tactics would have been reasonable. He was my friend, and he was obsessed with racial issues at a time when I was obsessed with the Soviet Missiles pointing at us.

I figured that a Nuclear Armageddon pretty much made other arguments irrelevant, and so I just listened to his passionate arguments on this issue without trying to be contrarian. It was later that I ran into non complimentary articles regarding what Lincoln did, and so began to think less of him.

200 posted on 09/26/2012 9:39:37 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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