Posted on 01/08/2014 6:04:43 AM PST by madmominct
Hello all -
In the interest of fighting the arguments of those (like my daughter) who defend socialism and point to how "happy" and content people are in Scandanavia in terms of healthcare and general prosperity, can you give me some good responses (besides "We are not Sweden"). I know of their problem with radical Islam now, and I know that their taxes are ridiculous, but I have heard that they are supposedly happy with their socialist government. I don't get it...why does it supposedly "work" there or in Germany, where the economy seems to be strong? I despise collectivism and I want to have some good arguments against it. I would appreciate Freepers' help. Thank you all in advance!
Sweden is not socialist - it is simply heavily shackled capitalism.
This article is FILLED with points. Sweden is becoming conservative and people are tiring of big government.
It’s all they know.
They are indoctrinated from birth that theirs is the best system.
If the entire country there votes to preserve their system, that is their right.
We do not need it imposed on us against our will.
If someone believes we should be so enshacked, perhaps they should just move to a fully flourishing socialistic country instead?
Sweden is smaller than Texas and much less diverse. It’s a lot easier to find common ground for social programs when you’re not trying to meet the needs of a diverse group of people. I have a co-worker who brags about the healthcare and education in Finland. Finland is nearly all white and there’s very little diversity. When their immigrant population reaches 40% they’ll be singing a different song. Or do they allow people to immigrate there without college degrees? Some countries don’t.
Even Sweden, long the darling of the true believers in the welfare state and the model held up to all the world as proof that socialism could be successful and humane, couldn’t cut the mustard in the end. In May 2002, Reuters reported on a survey conducted by the Swedish Research Institute of Trade, known in Sweden by the acronym HUI. According to the article:
Swedes, usually perceived in Europe as a comfortable, middle class lot, are poorer than African Americans, the most economically-deprived group in the United States.
"Black people, who have the lowest income in the United States, now have a higher standard of living than an ordinary Swedish household," the HUI economists said.
If Sweden were a U.S. state, it would be the poorest, measured by household gross income before taxes, [the report authors] said.
My wife's family believes that they are born with nothing and they will die with nothing. All they ever owned was a car, which they really could not afford to drive because gas is 10 frickin dollars a gallon. They have bought into it lock, stock, and barrel and it is really sad.
Then, poor people are the happiest people on earth.
Obama Hope’nChange / socialists / big gubmint collectivists had helped us all becoming poorer and thus happy-er!!!
And why we see so many rich unpleasant people being nasty, b*tchy, and unhappy. Out to make everybody else as miserable as they are.
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It feels cozy to have Mom take care of you?
That ‘study’ would leave any Swede scratching their head. It has no connection to life in Sweden , as it currently exists.
Yes - or the Nanny State. My daughter is going to college in Rome and thinks it’s great that she can (even as a foreigner) go to the doctor and get “free” medical care, which she says while sticking her tongue out at me. But Italy is a mess economically, which doesn’t seem to matter to her or the Italians...
I thought the Swedes started moving somewhat to the right economically back in the 90s. Anyway, I think their population is roughly the same as North Carolina’s, and it is far more homogeneous. I would say that collectivism is doomed to failure at any level in that it will never produce the same level of prosperity that free markets will. Sweden may be relatively stable, but it certainly is no model for a country as large and diverse as the US. Also, what do they pay for defense? It is easier to pay for a sweet welfare state when you remain neutral.
That study was from 2002, and so doesn't address life in Sweden as it currently exists.
As for the validity of that study, all I can tell you is that it was reported by Reuters. I make no claims about its validity. I do, however, remember when that study came out, and don't recall anyone questioning its conclusions.
Wait until she has to pay a Euro just to take a pee...then send her a photo of you sticking your tongue out at her (unless you’re paying for it!).
I have a good friend that I have known for over 20 years. She was born and raised in Sweden. She has lived here as a legal resident and just recently became a US citizen. She loves her native country but, being a conservative, she freely acknowledges its flaws. I will tell you what she told me some time ago and I assume that it is still fairly accurate.
Sweden has about the same population as NYC. They have been under heavy government regulation for so long that they have become docile and unquestioning. When the government tells them to do something, they comply without thinking. It’s a far cry from their Viking ancestry. They are sheep. Part of their “happiness” may come from their not spending the energy to get upset about it. It is true that life seems idyllic there on the surface, but you must get used to most of your income being confiscated from you. Doctors don’t get paid much. Clerks in shops live about the same lifestyle as people who spend years in college. Every two person household must have a double income to succeed and it is accepted that all children will be in childcare from birth. Everybody gets 5 weeks off in the summer when the country shuts down. Many things require the government’s permission there that we take for granted here. The government has taught them to be robots and many of them don’t realize it.
Of course the siege on their borders by the Muslims are changing that and people are angry about it, but they are a long way from true realization of the freedom that has made America what it is. It is also true, as another poster pointed out, that the population is trying to go toward a more Capitalist system. The Capitalist party has even won elections in the past, but the population as a whole will have to accept the tradeoffs that they are not used to in order to succeed.
My friend described the difference between most of Europe and America in this way. If a problem is presented to a European, he will find a way to adjust his life to accommodate it including doing without. That is how the government gets by with imposing so many regulations. If an American is faced with a problem, he will find a way to fix the problem, which explains why so many inventions originate here. She told me this more than a decade ago. Now we are becoming more like Europe. It is really a fundamental difference in the way the two cultures see success and our view is being corrupted. We are the engine and we are shutting ourselves down. Government dependency will do that.
LOL - great idea! :)
Thank you - that’s great information.
I used to work with a bunch of Swede RF Engineers at an unnamed Swedish owned telecom company in Dallas. They were amazed at the low prices on food, housing, etc. They actually would take pictures of some of the Plano/Richland area two story brick houses, they couldn’t believe how huge and cheap they were. When they told me what their tax rate was, I replied that Sweden could be a nuclear superpower with that kind of money. They didn’t think it was funny.
You nailed it.
It reminds me of this horrible children’s book that a lib relative once gave my kids (that promptly got put in the trash)- I think called “The Rainbow Fish” (that should have given me a clue right there). Its scales were so beautiful that it made the other, more drab fish, feel badly about themselves. So, to make the other fish feel better the rainbow fish took its beautiful scales one by one and gave them to the other fish, so that they all felt better about themselves and nobody was more beautiful than the other - they were all ugly. That’s socialism.
I’d be inclined to simply say people in North Korea are probably very happy too, if you poll them.
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