A Blot On The Jewish People

The Times Of Israel ^ | Aug. 19, 2014 | Dov Ivry

[idov]

Again which rabbis are you talking about? Name names. You don’t make any sense at all. I’m sorry.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

We’re talking of houses of prayer.

You are just shifting the goal posts since you do not know what you are talking about. This exchange started with you denying the existence of synagogues prior to the destruction of the Temple. Since synagogues are confirmed to exist prior to that, then you are just talking only to talk. What do you think went on inside a synagogue, and how does it contradict what is described in the New Testament? Show chapter and verse and provide citations for any assertion. Don't just make assertions.

[redleghunter]

With words they cause a contagious social disease. These guys came up with a word which became a cancer.

Wow now "cancer" "contagious social disease" and previously you used "parasite." You are just racking up the old pogrom posse quotes from old time Europe. You also realize you are using a lot of terms for some dictator who murdered millions of your kin?

[idov]

You are telling me that Zeus and Apollo and all the rest were not empty words. As a matter of fact, I have two sources on that that they were: language experts such as F. Max Muller and all the Hebrew prophets.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

From the Jewish Encylopedia. Are they making stuff up?: "The origin of the synagogue, in which the congregation gathered to worship and to receive the religious instruction connected therewith, is wrapped in obscurity. By the time it had become the central institution of Judaism (no period of the history of Israel is conceivable without it), it was already regarded as of ancient origin, dating back to the time of Moses (see Yer. Targ., Ex. xviii. 20 and I Chron. xvi. 39; Pesiḳ. 129b; Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 27; Josephus, "Contra Ap." ii., § 17; Acts xv. 21). The "house of the people" (Jer. xxxix. 8 [Hebr.]) is interpreted, in a midrash cited by Rashi and Ḳimḥi (ad loc.), as referring to the synagogue, and "bet 'amma," the Aramaic form of this phrase, was the popular designation in the second century for the synagogue (Simeon b. Eleazar, in Shab. 32a). The synagogue as a permanent institution originated probably in the period of the Babylonian captivity, when a place for common worship and instruction had become necessary. The great prophet, in the second part of the Book of Isaiah, in applying the phrase "house of prayer" to the Temple to be built at Jerusalem (Isa. lvi. 7 and, according to the very defensible reading of the LXX., also lx. 7), may have used a phrase which, in the time of the Exile, designated the place of united worship; this interpretation is possible, furthermore, in such passages as Isa. lviii. 4. The term was preserved by the Hellenistic Jews as the name for the synagogue (προσευχή = οἶκος προσευχῆς; comp. also the allusion to the "proseucha" in Juvenal, "Satires," iii. 296). After the return from the Captivity, when the religious life was reorganized, especially under Ezra and his successors, congregational worship, consisting in prayer and the reading of sections from the Bible, developed side by side with the revival of the cult of the Temple at Jerusalem, and thus led to the building of synagogues. The place of meeting was called "bet ha-keneset," since an assembly of the people for worship was termed a "keneset"; the assembly described in Neh. ix.-x. was known in tradition as the "great assembly" ("keneset ha-gedolah"; see Synagoġue, The Great). The synagoguecontinued to be known by this name, although it was called also, briefly, "keneset" (Aramaic, "kanishta"), and, in Greek, συναγωγή." http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14160-synagogue More at link

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Whoops, forgot to put the codes to seperate stuff. Here is the post again:

From the Jewish Encylopedia on synagogues. Are they making stuff up?:

"The origin of the synagogue, in which the congregation gathered to worship and to receive the religious instruction connected therewith, is wrapped in obscurity. By the time it had become the central institution of Judaism (no period of the history of Israel is conceivable without it), it was already regarded as of ancient origin, dating back to the time of Moses (see Yer. Targ., Ex. xviii. 20 and I Chron. xvi. 39; Pesiḳ. 129b; Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 27; Josephus, "Contra Ap." ii., § 17; Acts xv. 21). The "house of the people" (Jer. xxxix. 8 [Hebr.]) is interpreted, in a midrash cited by Rashi and Ḳimḥi (ad loc.), as referring to the synagogue, and "bet 'amma," the Aramaic form of this phrase, was the popular designation in the second century for the synagogue (Simeon b. Eleazar, in Shab. 32a). The synagogue as a permanent institution originated probably in the period of the Babylonian captivity, when a place for common worship and instruction had become necessary. The great prophet, in the second part of the Book of Isaiah, in applying the phrase "house of prayer" to the Temple to be built at Jerusalem (Isa. lvi. 7 and, according to the very defensible reading of the LXX., also lx. 7), may have used a phrase which, in the time of the Exile, designated the place of united worship; this interpretation is possible, furthermore, in such passages as Isa. lviii. 4. The term was preserved by the Hellenistic Jews as the name for the synagogue (προσευχή = οἶκος προσευχῆς; comp. also the allusion to the "proseucha" in Juvenal, "Satires," iii. 296).

After the return from the Captivity, when the religious life was reorganized, especially under Ezra and his successors, congregational worship, consisting in prayer and the reading of sections from the Bible, developed side by side with the revival of the cult of the Temple at Jerusalem, and thus led to the building of synagogues. The place of meeting was called "bet ha-keneset," since an assembly of the people for worship was termed a "keneset"; the assembly described in Neh. ix.-x. was known in tradition as the "great assembly" ("keneset ha-gedolah"; see Synagoġue, The Great). The synagoguecontinued to be known by this name, although it was called also, briefly, "keneset" (Aramaic, "kanishta"), and, in Greek, συναγωγή."

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14160-synagogue

More at link

[idov]

Sorry you lost me again. Maybe you are a genius and much too brilliant for me, but I have not a clue what you are talking about.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You are telling me that Zeus and Apollo and all the rest were not empty words.

We differ on "all the rest," i.e the God of the Bible.

As a matter of fact, I have two sources on that that they were: language experts such as F. Max Muller and all the Hebrew prophets.

On "that that they were"? You're referring to the names of Zeus and Apollo or on the Greek words "Chrio" etc? Provide a citation and a quote and be more clear. Do not jut vomit all over my computer screen.

[redleghunter]

Well this is a heavily conservative and religious site. So yes you do have to sit through a sermon so you can see how misguided and bigoted your assertions are (still waiting for an argument). I painted the picture, so it is up for you to open your eyes. No follower of Jesus Christ doing His will murders other people in His Name. You can call them what you want but they are not doing what Jesus commanded. Period. That is why I posted the words of Jesus Christ clearly.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Maybe you are a genius and much too brilliant for me,

It is not difficult to be too brilliant for you.

[redleghunter]

Name names. You don’t make any sense at all. I’m sorry.

LOL, and you write for the Israel Times. Wow. That is the problem you don't 'name names' you just assert a nebulous 2000 year 'tradition.' It is the "Cliff Clavin" defense of "it is a well known fact." Well it is not. Show us this fable discussed. Show us the source material.

[idov]

You are referring to Talmudic sources. They are not historical and not reliable.

This guy is an historian and reliable.

Solomon Zeitlin: “During the Second Commonwealth there were no synagogues as houses of prayer in Judea. The word synagogue does not occur in connection with prayers in the literature of that period.”

[idov]

“Well this is a heavily conservative and religious site. So yes you do have to sit through a sermon so you can see how misguided and bigoted your assertions are (still waiting for an argument). I painted the picture, so it is up for you to open your eyes. No follower of Jesus Christ doing His will murders other people in His Name. You can call them what you want but they are not doing what Jesus commanded. Period. That is why I posted the words of Jesus Christ clearly.”

Tell that to the victims.

[Springfield Reformer]

You’re the one who raised “Jewish tradition” as a source for some of what you’re trying to sell here. I read that and thought I too would like to know the actual source. One needs primary sources for something so obviously controversial. If you are unwilling to provide such a source, what does that mean? Don’t you think you can defend this alleged tradition if we have a fair shot at evaluating it in its original context? That’s why serious folks cite, and everyone else just bloviates. And bloviating is fine as long as you don’t expect to be taken seriously. :)

[redleghunter]

F. Max Muller

Still using refuted late 19th Century skeptics? Sir William Ramsay blows Max Muller and his school of thought out of the water.

[idov]

Zeus and Apollo and Christos are all the same: empty words that developed a following as gods. Is that what you want?

[redleghunter]

Read your posts. You have referred to Christians as a “parasite”, “cancer” and “social disease.” Care to up the ante there Adolf?

[wardaddy]

Too many have hitched their horse to wrong wagon since 1840s

And so it goes...

I’ll take the decent 25% with pleasure

The rest are my arch foes in the culture war

They declared me and my heritage their enemy

Not the other way around

[idov]

In water polo? Muller was linguist. Ramsey was not a linguist.

[redleghunter]

Solomon Zeitlin Born in either 1892 or more likely 1886, Solomon Zeitlin became professor of rabbinical studies at Dropsie College in Philadelphia. He is noted for having taught in the same classroom at the school for more than five decades without missing a class. He never took notes and would not forget facts. In 1971, a bibliography noted 406 of Zeitlin's works, primarily scholarly articles but also including his three-volume work, The Rise and Fall of the Judean State.

Upon discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the 1940s, he questioned their authenticity and used methods to do so that resembled the field of public relations more than scholarship. Some of his claims have no basis in fact whatsoever, and should be treated purely as speculation.

So he is in a minority of one who argued the authenticity of the Dead Sea scrolls.