[annalex]

Your response is devoid of fact.

That is true. That it is my opinion and not an explanation of the teachings of the Catholic Church is also true.

what I was speaking towards were actual facts of the issues, which if properly framed -- would not, in end result be something which would all that badly

Of course not. That was my conclusion about that burial well as well. That is why I am not here to reflect on that Irish thing at all. The only contribution I could make was the general remark that I did make.

[BlueDragon]

That is why I am not here to reflect on that Irish thing at all.

Yet you did anyway in the next comment to the one here to which I give reply...

Needless to say, I don't see an atheist or muslim posting here and pinging me.

There are not many muslims who are members here. There are a few atheists I take it -- but they tend to stay away from the religion forum.

That may have something to do with why those kind of people "don't ping you"? -- just maybe? Why would those persons be interested in talking to you anyway?

The Irish burial well scandal has every hallmark of Protestant scandal mongering.

Catherine Corliss is Roman Catholic.

From http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393;

She is sure that a sewage tank operated on the site in the early part of the 20th century because minutes of the workhouse’s board meetings published at the time by the Tuam Herald report problems of overflowing.

Would it have taken up the entire space of what is now known as the unofficial graveyard for the babies who died at the home? “No,” she says. “Maybe a third of the area.” She believes that what Sweeney and Hopkins found was the former sewage tank, which she had previously referred to in her article as a crypt. It seems this is where the story of “800 skeletons dumped in a septic tank” has subsequently come from.

She never denied including mention that the structure was possibly a sewage tank -- dating back to the 19th century, but she did deny saying the word "dumped" as in babies callously "dumped" into a septic tank, for that misrepresents her own findings, being that if the structure which was opened in 1975 had ever been a sewage pit --- it was not being used as one at the time it was being utilized for burials.

From the above sort of evidence (and more which I will not go into) is where the 'sewage tank' aspect of the story originated.

All of that was not "Protestant scandal mongering", but are a part of the facts, although it is regrettable that news agencies worldwide did run with the accusatory headline. Yet since when (of late) have news-writers and editors been "Protestants"? It's more like the majority of the press are cynical (at best) towards Christianity, and all "religion" in general.

It was the casual use of that phrase by yourself "Protestant scandal mongering" -- which prompted my here reply. Don't blame an entire, loosely defined grouping of individuals, for what persons not of there own faith, even those of no particularly "Christian" affiliation at all were the chief "scandal mongers" of.

Let's set the record as straight as possible, while everyone waits for what else may come to light. Corliss (and others) would like there to be some excavations. There are locals who oppose any further disturbances at the area where graves are known to be located. How that will eventually be resolved, I'm not sure, but the local historian Corliss was given some form of government approval for further research into the matters.

She seems to be fair enough, and willing to be thorough. She did spend a moderately significant amount of her own money -- just to do the initial researching into individual names. At some juncture, records for each individual child born there (and died there) was paid by herself, personally. It added up to something like the price of an older, but still decent used automobile? In the several thousands $$$US once one accounts for currency conversion.

Yet there are complications...some which are touched touched upon in this article;

http://tintean.org.au/2014/11/12/action-at-last-in-the-tuam-babies-case/ from Nov. 11 2014

In one of the original versions of the story, the babies’ skeletons were supposedly buried in a ‘septic tank’, but in fact no one knows for certain where the bodies are. The most likely place is under the open green space in the centre of the site where there were sewerage arrangements at one time. The investigative work that has been done so far has revealed that there was a series of about nine cesspits on the grounds. This was a Victorian system of interlinked chambers, up to seven feet in height. The confusion between the supposed septic tank site and the actual sewage system on the grounds has led to some claims that the entire story is a lie fuelled by sectarianism.

But the "entire story" is not a lie, or "hoax". The claims that it was that, and only that, are reminiscent of the not-to-distant past when stories of sexual predation of underage children (many of them young teenage boys) by Roman Catholic priests, were met with walls of denial, and counter-charges of persecuting the (Roman Catholic) Church made against those who brought the allegations. Finally it became well enough established there really had been a ongoing problem, and a problem of long standing -- with one of the worst parts being the efforts on the part of the RCC hierarchy to deny, or else cover up the abuse. That sort of thing does make people to now tend towards being suspicious.

There is one freeper here, a physician whom is Catholic, who himself had long fought against the problem from within the RCC -- and got a whole bunch of grief from those within the RCC for having done so -- spanning to perhaps 20 years ago now?

But back to the Irish story which you yourself admittedly did not raise issue of on this thread, but after the issue was raised, you have talked about (in bringing generalized accusation against "protestants") but said you were not talking about it;

Here, in this article http://philipboucher-hayes.com/2014/06/12/tuam-new-understanding/ is some of the rest of the likely-to-be exculpatory evidence which I came across six months ago. There were apparently multiple underground structures -- some of which (at the least) it can be assumed were used as sewage pits, dating back to when the facility was a 'workhouse' in the 19th century. The Irish army used the facility for some brief span of years also, but never mind that aspect for now. Read the article...but here to follow are portions of it;

The Mail on Sunday has identified two sites side by side each other in its radar survey. Frannie Hopkins and Barry Sweeney discovered one as boys in 1975. The Mail called it Plot B.

Plot A is the square shaped one Mary Moriarty says she fell into in the 1970’s when the ground subsided. A child was found playing with a baby’s skull and when Mary and neighbours investigated she discovered a large underground space with shelves from floor to ceiling stacked with infant bodies. She says she saw in excess of 100 tiny figures swaddled and guessed from the size they were newborn or stillborn.

Subsequently she talked to a woman called Julia Devaney who had been a resident of the home and later an employee. By then in her late seventies she told Mary how she had assisted the nuns carrying dead babies along a tunnel running from the back of the home to this vault.

Now obviously it will take excavation to confirm any of this but her description of the space and the possible existence of a tunnel used to access this burial plot would suggest that plot A (whatever of Plot B) at least was not a septic tank.

[snip]

The tireless Catherine Corless has found documentary evidence proving the existence of a tunnel (WWII era proposals to use them as air raid shelters) and Frannie Hopkins has clear memories of playing in a tunnel as a child but not one that extended as far as the burial sites. So there is limited corroboration for Julia Devaney’s posthumous testimony but Alison O’Reilly of The Mail on Sunday tells me their GPR Survey showed no tunnel.

The other burial plot we cant say that of yet because the plans do indicate the presence of a tank in the vicinity.

Are you aware that some years ago, 2004 I think it was, when another portion of the property was being developed, and excavations for a road were being dug out, there were graves of adults found (and exhumed) on the property? Those graves date back to the old 'work house' days.

If there was some kind of burial vault back then --- why were those persons not placed within it? I ask that question rhetorically, not seeking or demanding answer from anyone here, but more in hope any who have concerns and complaints about how the story was handled, including how it was discussed previously on the pages of FR, will take the above information into consideration.

Additionally, the entire story was part of a larger coming-to-grips with 19th to mid-20th century Irish history, which includes more than a wee bit of less-than righteous treatment of unwed mothers and their offspring, and other embarrassing past cruelties which those of the RCC were involved with.

If it would make anyone feel any better --- there were so-called "Magdalene Asylums" (or Laundries, for most supported themselves in that manner) http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/07/depressing-not-surprising-how-magdalene-laundries-got-away-it run not only by Catholic nuns, but a few of them operated by persons ostensibly Protestant which apparently had their own abuses, much similar to what can be dredged-up from the past that included varying degree of involvement of the RCC in Ireland.