Posted on 02/10/2015 7:22:59 PM PST by Rusty0604
LOL...
You are one crazy propagandist.
“Afraid of getting flamed? Why? I think arming Ukraine is terrible idea. The place had nearly 24 years to turn itself into a country, but it simply was stripped bare by its so-called rulers. Not sure there is much there to save. I’m more worried about our own government led by our own leftists and statists, without having to worry about Putin.”
The so-called “rulers” of the Ukraine were for the most part holdover ethnic Russians and die-hard Communists of all types from the Soviet Union’s Bolshevist Communist days looking to get rich quick through the criminal graft and corruption typical of Russian society while on their way to paving the way forward for a revival of the soviet-Russian empire in Europe and elsewhere. Every time the more honest Ukrainians try to get on their feet and stand up against this corruption, Communist subversion, and Russian hegemony, the Russians try to suppress the Ukrainians by the addition of thousands to millions more Ukrainians murdered by torture, executions, war, and starvation. Just how many more Ukrainians must the Russians enslave, plunder, and kill to feel safe anyway?
Not only that, Russia is going to have some real problems with their defense industry, soon, if not already. About 1/3 of Russia's defense industry was actually Ukrainian, and the two were strongly intertwined. Very few finished products from either country were all Ukrainian or all Russian. This has hurt both sides, with shipments back and forth of components interrupted. Ukraine is hurt more immediately, especially on the economic front, as they shipped much more to Russia than Russia shipped to them, for sales outside Russia & Ukraine. Most of Ukraine's defense income was from business with Russia. But, in terms of their own defense, Ukraine may be able to get defensive weapons from the West / US, while Russia has essentially no outside suppliers, and has proved spectacularly inept in replacing Ukrainian component imports.
IMO, a BIG part of Putin's grab was the defense components plants in Eastern Ukraine, but I suspect many of those are in ruins by now... Further, many advanced Soviet weapons depend on the importation of commercial components from the West, and those components are embargoed now, too. Possibly the Chinese can supplant them, but that will take some time.
The real question may be whether the Euro's & Obama's* own apparent desire for a long war of attrition against Russia, using the Ukrainians as cannon fodder, prevails, or whether the US hawks' desire to give Ukraine enough weapons to push out the Russians and get this thing over relatively quickly (which actually might leave Russia in a better position, long term), prevails.
*I suspect Obama is very conflicted: The greater / long term "harm to Putin / Russia plan" is taking too long for Obama to get the credit, so a lesser, more immediate setback to Putin may be looking more attractive. The hawks in both parties are propelling Obama toward the latter. Plus, Putin & his minions are pushing hard now, and a "win" of sorts by Putin, in which Ukraine pretty much capitulates, also foils Obama. So, Obama may be trying to "calibrate" the amount of lethal aid: Just enough to keep the Ukrainians going?
Is this "source" really that stupid?
Uh, your “this started with” is actually about 95% of the way “already in progress”.
The problem is what is the Ukrainian Govt doing to help itself. The army is getting by on private donations while the govt in Kiev is stealing all the cash they can
Hearing that Susan Rice and Obama’s politicos are micromanaging the pentagon doesn’t help me sleep better after seeing all those headlines.
I’m concerned about communism imposed right here in the U.S. without a shot fired, just as planned many years ago. The infiltrators have just about completed their mission. We have lost a lot of our freedoms and we are no longer a free market capitalist nation.
So what you said; you are right on, but it’s happening here.
Not sure what you mean. My understanding is that this started with (corrupt) Yanukovych rejecting European Union agreement, wanting to maintain trading and lending ties with Russia.
Homegrown socialism and communism have deep roots in America going back to at least 1818, with their incorporation into the American educational system through the adoption of the Massachusetts public school systems and the Unitarian takeover of Harvard College from the Calvinists.
By 1857 the American communists gained increasing control of the teachers’ unions through the National Teachers Association (NTA) and the successor National Education Association (NEA).
By the First World War the socialists and communists in the American educational system gained increasing influence with help from the policies of Democrat Woodrow Wilson’s Administration.
The President Franklin Delano Roosevelt Administration featured a communist American Vice President, presidential chief of staff working as a communist agent for Stalin and the Soviet Union, and President Roosevelt’s blessing for Soviet-Russia’s wholesale export of American technologies and secrets over the objections of American counter-intelligence services.
By 1967 the leaders of the NEA (National Education Association) formally declared war upon the American culture with a plan to reeducate the American people in accordance with the NEA socialist-communist principles.
So, there is an abundance of homegrown American socialism-communism dating from the earliest decades of the Republic to accompany the efforts of the more recent foreign communist infiltrators.
Not long ago, I was glad that my grandchildren didn’t have to grow up during the cold war like I did, as I remember the stupid drills getting under your desk, and as a kid, I worried a lot about being blown up by the Russians.
Now it’s even getting worse; China, Russia, the Islamic nuts, and most of all the Communist in our own administration.
Growing up near a naval air station, I enjoyed the monthly air raid drills in school, too. The drills broke the monotony and showed us that more adults cared back then. I also did the Civil Defense Medical Self-Help course in high school.
“At least they cared about us and were good enough to keep government income recipients from stuffing all of the civil defense funding into their own salaries.
And being more honest, they more easily understood the truth.”
I agree with you completely. We s/h stomped out these problems when they were a cinder. If we don’t have national security, nothing else matter.
I’m just calling the drills stupid because getting under your desk with your head down will not save you from a nuclear attack. But I guess at the time I didn’t know that.
I’ve told my kids to have a room with water and a little food in it and plastic to keep air out, and have some iodine on hand. They think I’m nuts.
Farc is the largest Marxist terrorist/guerrilla force in Colombia. Been around for many decades. Held many civilians and military prisoners for years, if not decades. Used to fling gas-filled cylinders by catapaults into govt facilities and cities, causing many civilian casualties.
Used to and probably still does get some support from Cuba and Venezuela.
Deeply into narcoterrorism, mainly cocaine, and often has firefights with local drug cartels.
Obama did his best to undermine the relatively democratic govt in Bogota in their fight against the communists. Fortunately Colombian leaders are a lot smarter because they know the communists and what they want. Therefore they saw through Obama’s help-the-Marxists policies and rejected them.
Wise move!
Thank you for that information.
The Marxist and Russian guerrillas of eastern Ukraine have plenty of weapons due to nearly daily truck convoys coming down from Russia to the Donestk area and other rebel-held cities.
Ukrainian troops rarely change sides unless they were sleeper agents in the old Ukrainian army. Never heard of Ukrainian officers selling arms to the rebels. This is an old Vietnam war piece of disinformation. Didn’t know that it would be revived today by anyone who is knowledgeable about what is going on in Ukraine.
Oh, by the way, the heavy artillery used by the rebels is largely Russian, sent in illegally to supplement whatever the Russian-led rebels seized in the early part of the war.
Remember, so-called Ukrainian rebel leader Grilkov was actually a KGB officer and said so in several monitored and printed radio broadcasts, including some from inside Russia itself.
The tanks and missile-vehicles are Russian, as are the estimated 6-9,000 Red Army troops (many are draftees) inside Ukraine today. SOme of these soldiers have used their cell-phones to show pictures of themselves and their armored vehicles/rockets INSIDE UKRAINE.
tcrlaf: If you would stop putting out Putin’s propaganda and read the international press, you might see what a Marxist asshole you are and shut up in shame. That is predicated on you having the ability to understand and show shame.
Being a Marxist-line sociopath and liar is no way to go thru life, son. (Dean Wormser, a man way ahead of his time).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.