That is wrong. Very little oil or oil products is used to generate electricity in the US. Most of what is used is refinery "leftovers", residual oil and petroleum coke.
Posted on 03/12/2015 6:34:38 PM PDT by Citizen Zed
but isn’t there an indicator light telling you that the engine or even battery is off? Or how about an indicator noise? If the Volt doesn’t have a noise, and my 2006 Saturn Ion has a noise telling you that the car isn’t entirely turned off?
That part makes me wonder. My cat is a 2006 Saturn Ion, and it makes a noise if you are leaving the car and the battery is being drained because the car is not entirely deactivated, whether it’s the battery, the engine, or both. I have a feeling that maybe people ignored similar sound indicators on the Volt, unless they didn’t include audio indicators that you are leaving the car without shutting it off entirely.
Gee - even our iron has sensors which shut it off if there is no activity for a set period of time....
That’s the part that makes me wonder, why not have an automatic shut off for idleness? Or even if you are worried, older ICE cars like my Saturn even tell you when you open the door of the car that something is not deactivated. So find what isn’t off and shut it off.
That is wrong. Very little oil or oil products is used to generate electricity in the US. Most of what is used is refinery "leftovers", residual oil and petroleum coke.
Take the efficiency of getting electricity to your home from the fuel, 33%.
Now take the charger efficiency, the battery efficiency, the invertery efficiency before you get to the motor.
Do you still think that is greater efficiency than 30%?
Cheaper fuel, yes. More efficient, probably not. Reality is our desire for transportation convience is not an energy efficient method.
I buy vehicles on dollars per mile however, not effieciency. For most people, that is the efficiency that matters, dollars spent for utility.
Sorry, not enough coffee yet.
inverter...
Wait a minute...you would NOT store your Volt for a month without being plugged in?!?? Then why in the heck to you keep saying the Volt is just like any other car? If you can’t park it and walk away, its a toy, not a car.
Now you didn’t do your homework assignment, so let me do it for you.
The electric motor has 149 hp. The engine is 84 hp. Do you really think the Volt acts just like a ‘normal car’ with an 84 hp motor? When the car weighs 3,800 lb? That’s a ratio of 45 lb per hp, btw.
A 1976 Chevette had 60 hp for 1,850 lbs...31 lb per hp, or in other words the Volt on its engine has a power/weight ration 50% WORSE than a 1976 oil crisis car of yesteryear.
See. Its a toy. In fact, that tiny gas engine really can’t push a heavy car like the Volt through the mountains. Don’t believe me? Then explain why GM has ‘mountain mode’ on the Volt.
Now toys are fine. I don’t care. Unless I pay for it. So I have to insist, every time you post about the glorious achievements of the Volt, you add a preamble, which explains why the Volt’s perceived advantages are worth my taxpayer dollars.
One other little homework assignment. Why subsidize it? If its so great, wouldn’t it take off like a new I-Phone? GM is not an ‘upstart’ company...so don’t even think about claiming its a ‘new industry’. The electric car industry is older than the gas car industry btw. Seriously...why on earth do you think it has to be subsidized? Why have sales been so terrible? Do you trust the market? It quite frankly has spoken.
Four years ago, GE announced it would buy 12,000 Volts in ‘the next few years’.
http://www.plugincars.com/ge-will-purchase-25000-plug-ins-12000-chevy-volts-106436.html
I assume they have made most of those purchases.
My power company uses the Volt....I assume a lot of power companies around the nation do.
In 2014 an edict went out from on high (Mount Obama) that the federal fleet would be EV friendly (except his motorcade of course). Estimates are that 15% of Volt sales go to the federal government.
We may never know for sure...but it looks like less than half of the ‘sales’ went to private owners.
Your article on China's rare-earth mining was mostly just that. China has poor worker protections and environmental protections, so industries there tend to have more harmful side-effects, whether it is iPhone manufacturing or mining. Also from your article:
“But China can’t produce enough for everyone anymore, and if governments are serious about low-carbon technologies, other countries will have to start producing.”
We get it from China because they offer it the cheapest, but other countries can provide rare earths as well.
“China is estimated to account for 90 percent of rare-earth production, despite having only one third of the world's deposits.”
Also, the upcoming 2016 Chevy Volt has been redesigned to use less rare earth metals, yet has more horsepower overall.
“...cutting overall rare-earth metal use from 3.2 kg to 1.2 kg, and the use of heavy rare earths (primarily dysprosium) from 282 grams to just 40 grams.”
That Reuters article has been thoroughly debunked yet it continues to be heavily used by the anti-EV crowd. Bob Lutz did a good job of explaining why those numbers were idiotic:
I was surprised to read Ben Klayman’s piece on alleged astronomical per-unit losses on the Chevrolet “Volt.” Ben is usually a solid professional who checks his facts.
The statement that GM “loses” over $40K per Volt is preposterous. What the “analyst” in whom poor Ben Klayman placed his faith has done is to divide the total development cost and plant investment by the number of Volts produced thus far. That’s like saying that a real estate company that puts up a $10 million building and has rental income of one million the first year is “losing” 9 million dollars...
The Real Story On GM’s Volt Costs
“Speaking of Hummers, perhaps it is environmentally responsible to buy one and squash a Prius with it.”
The article you cited that referenced a CNW study regarding the Hummer and the Prius was widely regarded as junk science.
Enter the Pacific Institute, an Oakland-based environmental think-tank, with a counter-report alleging that the CNW report is based on “faulty methods of analysis, untenable assumptions, selective use and presentation of data, and a complete lack of peer review.” Among its most flawed assumption: the average H1 Hummer is assumed to last 35 years, and travel 379,000 miles, while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000 miles over 12 years.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/The-Hummer-vs-the-Prius-2557425.php
In fact, if you believe the CNW Wikipedia page (yes I know its Wikipedia, so take with a grain of salt), CNW themselves later “updated” their numbers: “CNWMR has since added data for 2007-2008 model year cars in the June 2008 release of their ‘From Dust to Dust’ study and the Prius cost per lifetime mile fell 23.5% to $2.191 per lifetime mile while the H3 cost rose 12.5% to $2.327 per lifetime mile.”
Nah, out of the 70,000+ Volts that have been sold, the Pentagon said they would buy 1,500 (but I don't think the ended up buying that much, see link below) and I believe another 100 went to the city of Las Vegas. However, since that happened early in the Volt's run, some people assumed that sales to government agencies continued to grow without any actual evidence, reports, etc. of it being true.
“Four years ago, GE announced it would buy 12,000 Volts in ‘the next few years’.” —lacrew
This is from an article that busts several Volt myths, and is a good read in general:
GE specifically announced that it would add as many as 12,000 Volts to its fleet over the next five years. So far GE has not followed through on this and has purchased only several hundred Volts. Because of the politics of the Volt sales in much of the U.S. press, GE and others are believed to be holding back so as not to be seen as taking sides in the November election. Fleet sales of all types only accounted for 100 to 200 Volts each month. Of the 2,800 volts sold in August in the U.S. only 100 went to fleets.
http://gm-volt.com/2012/09/25/five-myths-used-to-bully-chevy-volt-sales/
I'm sure you'll speculate that GE sales picked up after the election even though there is no evidence of that.
Yep. I usually try to avoid going down the efficiency rabbit hole because it ignores costs. All that really matters is exactly what you said: dollars per mile.
..So they’re recalling every single one they ever made. Luckily, most of these cars are still on dealership lots, so this shouldn’t be much of a hassle at all!
Hybrids are too rich for my blood. Until Obama makes the alternative more expensive. By then I’ll work from home.
Once again, you seem to relish twisting words. I said I would not leave it unplugged for a month out in the sun. In your airport example I would just park in the parking garage. Although a car cover might work as well.
Further, I already explained to you back in September regarding all your rambling about mountain mode. I'll just copy and paste it here for everyone’s benefit:
“What does this mean? If your Volt is out of battery juice, and you hit the hills, you will not be able to keep up with the normal flow of traffic. Instead you will be in the right lane, possibly even in the emergency lane, puttering up the hill.”
Well that is some nice wild speculation you have there, truly befitting of an internet post. How about real-world evidence, shall we?
First of all, GM did a lot of testing on Pike's Peak before releasing the Volt. But forget what GM says, what actual owners have experienced is nothing like what you describe. You see, when the Volt is normally “out-of-juice” and switches to gasoline mode, it actually has a large buffer of charge that is unused. If you forgot to use Mountain Mode and end up having to go up a mountain in theses situations, it uses some of that buffer to maintain normal speeds. (All Mountain Mode does is increase the size of that buffer.)
One owner posted an extensive report of his testing of this feature and found that he was unable to deplete this buffer in his 6 mile test up a 5% grade at 65 mph. Another owner on a much longer test was able to deplete the buffer. At that point his Volt gave him a “Propulsion Power is Reduced” warning and his speed was reduced to 57 mph until he cleared the hill.
“It doesn’t really have a gas mode - it has a limp home mode.”
I think 57 mph is more than adequate for steep inclines. I don't think anyone would honestly call it a “limp home mode.”
“In your airport example I would just park in the parking garage.”
Which costs $17 more per day at my airport. Real cars can be parked outside. Toys can’t.
“...and his speed was reduced to 57 mph...”
According to you, I am ‘rambling’ and this is ‘wild speculation’. So let me ramble on and speculate that a car that can only go 57 mph on the highway is silly slow...not ‘adequate’...in fact, as expertly described before: LIMPING HOME MODE.
But once again, you are erroneously drawing conclusions from scenarios that are nowhere near worse case (remember the heat stress test you cited...from a torturously hot day in April!?!?). Is driving around Arizona really the toughest test of mountain driving there is? I’m just speculating, I know, but those Colorado license plates lead to believe they might be known more for mountains that Arizona!
Here’s a very simple scenario, which would cripple the Volt. You live in Golden, Co and pick up a friend at the airport, to bring home - 72 mile round trip. Your buffer is empty, and your on the 89 hp ICE. Ok so far...until your friend gets a call, and you’ve got an invite and lift ticket waiting for you in Vail. Can you go to Vail? Nope. Didn’t plan ahead and use mountain mode. See how a last minute invite into the mountains is infinitely more challenging that driving to Flagstaff and back?
If it can’t do ordinary things, its not a real car. Its a toy. Now you neglected the pre-requisite preamble, so you just have to tell me: Why am I being forced to pay for other people’s Volt fetish? Can’t people pay for their own toys anymore? Why can’t you answer this simple question?
The fact that you have to come up with such a contrived situation only shows how desperate you are to find fault with the Volt. In my humble estimation, on average, American drivers will encounter a situation like the one you described somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.0001 times per lifetime.
Regardless, I'm not convinced that the situation you described would even result in Propulsion Power Reduced Mode! In the two examples I gave above, the driver who did encounter that mode did so while driving on a depleted battery from Camp Verde, AZ on the way to the turnoff to Prescott, highway 169. The endpoint on that map link is about the highest point on the journey according to what I can tell from this tool. It shows that it is an elevation change of about 2,000 feet over the course of about a 6 mile stretch of road. The contrived situation that you described is a much, much shallower climb of 2,500 feet over about 90 miles. I doubt you would dig too far into your buffer throughout that climb. Furthermore, if you turned on Mountain Mode after your “friend gets a call”, you whould have plenty of time throughout that journey to allow Mountain Mode to build up a large buffer.
“Why am I being forced to pay for other people’s Volt fetish?”
I did a rough, back-of-the-envelop calculation a few weeks ago that put the cost of EV subsidies at around $9 per taxpayer per year. Contrast that with how much our Navy spends playing rent-a-cop to Persian Gulf oil tankers: $50 billion a year, or around $480 per year for a household with an income of $80,000.
So in my view, spending $9 a year on an EV subsidy (until it expires in a few years) in order to invest in a technology that could a) save us $480 a year for decades and decades to come and b) screw over OPEC as well... is an incredibly smart taxpayer investment.
George W. Bush certainly thought so—he is the one who signed the EV subsidy into law. And this is from his 2006 State of the Union: “Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break this addiction is through technology.”
Uh...no. The situation is not ‘contrived’. The notion of making a last minute trip into the mountains (when you live near the mountains) seems not only plausible...but frankly the entire reason alot of people move to Colorado. And there is no buffer and there is not time. If you’ve used up the charge, you just flat can’t drive up into the mountains.
And frankly I don’t care if the EV subsidy is a fraction of a penny. Real conservatives have these things....which you don’t have...called Principles! Get it? Not one nickel of my money or anyine elses money should be confiscated fir somebody else’s toy. Tell me why I’m wrong and cite the appropriate section of the constitution.
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