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The U.S. Air Force Promised the F-4 Would Never Dogfight: Now it’s saying the same thing about [tr]
War is Boring ^ | July 6, 2015 | David Axe

Posted on 07/07/2015 8:02:37 AM PDT by C19fan

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To: C19fan
As a stealthy fighter bomber, the F-35 was of necessity subject to tricky compromises and design limitations. Priority was placed on stealth, a new radar and new infra-red sensors, and the computerized integration of sensors, flight data, and communications into a helmet-borne display and battle management system.

Supposedly, testing with computer simulated aircraft missions and engagements thoroughly validated the idea that with its planned capabilities, the F-35 would not need to be a dogfighter. At the time, it was also thought that there would be enough F-22s to handle any dogfighting that might nevertheless be required.

Of course, due to drastic curtailment of the F-22 purchase, it is not at all clear that in a pinch, there will be adequate F-22s available. The F-35's new capabilities will thus have to make it sufficiently lethal to win most all aerial engagements even without its F-22 big brother clearing the way of any risk of having to dogfight.

My guess is that when the F-35 is finally operational and deployed, it will be well-suited to helping mount decisive air campaigns against Iran or North Korea and their dense anti-aircraft defenses and hardened underground targets. The fielding of the F-35 in the coming years will substantially enhance the potency of our existing F-22s, land attack missiles, and heavy bombers.

The often projected scenario of a full-scale engagement with China in the South China Sea would be another matter entirely. Due to the immense distances involved, in such a contest, we would likely rely on missiles pummelling China's bases into ruins and US Navy subs clearing the seas of the Chinese Navy before we attempted an Air Force campaign against China's island bases in the South China Sea.

41 posted on 07/07/2015 10:50:53 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: C19fan

If their claims that stealth, and data management of missile trucks carrying all aspect missiles dominating over top speed, acceleration and maneuverability were true,,,, then a B-2 Spirit should easily be the most capable fighter plane on earth.


42 posted on 07/07/2015 10:56:43 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: Enlightened1

“How many dog fights have we had since 911”

We have not engaged any nation states with Air Forces of the slightest consequence since 911. You may not have noticed but we are entertaining war with China, Russia, and god only knows what could pop up with Greece, Turkey, Iran, the Saudis, etc.

Sukhois and Eurofighters are being sold as fast as they can be built. Dogfights aren’t really that unimaginable.


43 posted on 07/07/2015 11:07:42 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: C19fan

http://classicnavalair.tumblr.com/image/120964101344


44 posted on 07/07/2015 11:11:17 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: C19fan

In 1977 as Eglin was fielding its F-15s replacing the older F-4s there were many impromptu dissimilar air combat missions.

The F-4s consistently ate the F-15s’ lunch. How? The F-4s played to their strengths and the F-15’s weaknesses. Isn’t that what happened in Korea and Vietnam?

When the AF brags about a new fighter’s capabilities it is talking about test results, not real unscripted combat. And that’s the best outcome; frequently the bragging is based on what the General wants not what the gun camera film shows.

But then, reality, has never been the Air Force’s strongest suit - se the repeated push to boneyard the A-10 with no replacement on hand.


45 posted on 07/07/2015 11:23:37 AM PDT by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
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To: Rockingham

“Supposedly, testing with computer simulated aircraft missions and engagements thoroughly validated the idea that with its planned capabilities, the F-35 would not need to be a dogfighter”

Then a B-2 bomber carrying 100 air to air missiles should be just as good,,, shouldn’t it?


46 posted on 07/07/2015 12:40:24 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: C19fan
By coincidence, today's talk at the Engineers Club was by an Air Force veteran and professor of management at a local college. His topic was "Organizational Amnesia: Why organizations make the same mistakes over and over." He had some answers, but the bulk of his talk was examples drawn from various sources. All quite interesting. To me it looks as though the F-35 is repeating every mistake made for the F-111. A pox on Robert McNamara.
47 posted on 07/07/2015 2:09:47 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney ( book, RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY, available from Amazon)
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To: Enlightened1
I would trust the heads at the Air Force, Navy and Marines, since they are all purchasing it, because Dick Cheney told them to.
48 posted on 07/07/2015 6:59:55 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Palins are better parents than Clintons.)
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To: DesertRhino

Only if payload alone is your measure. The B-2 is a bomber and is not equipped to act as a flying arsenal of air to air missiles.


49 posted on 07/07/2015 10:17:52 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Army Air Corps

Indeed.

CC


50 posted on 07/08/2015 4:48:00 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (Sufficient unto the day are the troubles therof)
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To: C19fan; blueyon; KitJ; T Minus Four; xzins; CMS; The Sailor; ab01; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; ...

Active Duty ping.


51 posted on 07/08/2015 3:55:08 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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