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To: lentulusgracchus; DiogenesLamp; ladyjane; rockrr; EternalVigilance; x; HandyDandy; rustbucket
quoting BJK from post #970: "We have no actual records of any Northern slaves being sold "down South"

lentulusgracchus post #1024: "Illinois habitually arrested free black men for the offense of "walking while black" in Illinois, and sold them south in accordance with the State's "Black Code"."

That's a different subject, more related to Fugitive Slave laws than northern states' gradual abolition laws.
Remember, the 1850 Compromise shifted responsibility for catching & returning Fugitive Slaves from northern states' responsibility to the Federal Government's responsibility, and also left it nearly impossible for "slaves" captured in the North to defend themselves in court.

Point is, after 1850 freed blacks in the north were only "free" so long as no Federally sponsored slave-catcher grabbed them for "return" and sale in the South.
That some northern state laws -- responding to slave-power influence -- supported and reinforced Federal Fugitive Slave Law should not be so surprising, but the key thing to remember is: the States Rights of Northern states which wished to abolish slavery and protect freed blacks, those States' Rights were ignored by Federal Law.

lentulusgracchus: "After the grandfathering period in which French-owned slaves resident in the State at its admission were held to labor until expiry, no black person could legally live in Lincoln's adoptive State."

Not quite true.
Freed blacks already living in Illinois were not required to leave by Illinois law.
Of course, they were subject to abuses of the Federal Fugitive Slave laws, and no new blacks -- freed or escaped slaves -- were allowed by law to settle in Illinois.

All such Black Code laws were passed by Southern sympathizing legislatures, and opposed by northern abolitionists.

At the same time, in many Southern states there were serious efforts made in state legislatures to re-enslave freed blacks within their own borders.
These failed before the Civil War, but iirc, succeeded during the war.

lentulusgracchus: "Looking at your interesting map, I notice that the Shenandoah Valley held precious few slaves -- but a gallant Union cavalry general burned it all down anyway."

The large majority of citizens of western Virginia were not slave-holders, and refused to join the slave-power's secession and war against the United States.
These Virginians supported the Union army under General McClellan against Confederates lead by Robert E. Lee, as a result of which, Lee was defeated and withdrew from western Virginia.
This allowed those western Virginians to secede from Virginia and form their own state of West Virginia.
It also kept the destructions from war to a bare minimum in West Virginia.

By contrast, the Shenandoah Valley was a different story, with Confederate Armies lead by more capable generals who generally wiped the floor with more pathetic Union armies sent against them.
And, unlike West Virginia, Shenandoah Valley farmers did not so much support or sympathize with the Union.
Perhaps there were just enough more slave-holders amongst them to tip their overall sympathies to the Confederacy?

Regardless, it's not clear to me if the practice of burning opposing civilian assets was started by Union or Confederate armies.
Seems to me the case can be made just as well that it all started with Confederate army raids into Union states, and was then picked up by some Union forces in Confederate states.
Yes, in the end, more Confederate towns & farms were burned than Union, but only because Confederates had less opportunity, not less intention.

By the way, for months now I've been tied up on other projects, and am delighted today to have the opportunity to respond to your post, FRiend.

1,031 posted on 11/03/2015 6:59:47 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
Yes, in the end, more Confederate towns & farms were burned than Union, but only because Confederates had less opportunity, not less intention.

It is well documented that the Army of Northern Va was under orders to not rob or pillage. These standing orders came form the top i.e. Lee. This is why when CS cavalry sacked Chambersburg is was a huge deal. It was so out of the ordinary, read the papers from the period.

Your post is cannot be substantiated. What can be verified is the standing orders from the Army of Tennessee to glean as much from the enemy as possible, forage included destruction, and to destroy anyone one who opposes Federal authority, the opposite of Lee's order.

A lot of yahoos claim the money the rebs would by goods from farmers and merchants with was worthless, but it wasn't there were money changers that would convert CS dollars to US Dollars and vice versa.

Of the union Armies the best behaved so to speak was the Army of the Potomac which never really had to forage as supply and logistics was its forte - not fighting.

1,036 posted on 11/03/2015 12:08:34 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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