Me too...and it's up to me when I choose to honor a request.
but one could argue that in context it was a polite order.
Many will try...but words have meaning...even under the law. (well unless you are on the supreme court...but I digress)
“Would you please step out of the vehicle, sir.” Order or request?
I'd term that a request and ask if "I am under arrest?"
If the answer is "yes"...I will get out, comply..and remain silent...if the answer is "no"...I will say "No thank you officer and would I like to sit here while you write the ticket"
Been there done that. the (no thank you part)
This goes directly to the old "do you mind if we search your car" request...
If you answer "No I dont mind" you have consented to a search...and anything found can be used against you in a court of law.....
If you answer "No, you dont have my permission"...and they search anyways(which they might)...anything found is "fruit from a corrupt tree" and any evidence found from an illegal search (without a search warrant)and cannot be used as evidence against you in court.
“Please put your hands behind you back, sir.” Order or request.
Request...IE: the word "please".
Again...the proper responce to this request is "am I under arrest officer?"
If the answer is "yes"...comply....
If the answer is "No"...request for a supervisor on scene to attempt to clear things up...
If one is not "under arrest"...one is "free to go"...there is no legal middle ground...and any good lawyer worth his salt will take care of it later by getting any charges against you thrown out.
And No I am not advocating "resistance" or even "non compliance"....I am saying know your rights...and know when they are being violated....fight it in court LATER.
Again it is a moot point.
Hardly...if "could you plase put your cigarette out" was a lawful order...and she refused to comply...then she has refused a lawful order. If it was a "request" and she refused to comply...then she dont not refuse a "lawful order" and thus he had no legal reason to order her out of the car.....the arguement that a cop can order you out of a car is the point that is moot....we know that...but what is or is not a lawful order is not a moot point.
Whether the cigarette thing was a lawful order or request makes no difference.
"do you mind if we search your car?"
Chose wisely...see above.
He had the authority to order her out of the car at any time.
But he did not do so until she refused a "request" to put her cig out...and that is not a moot point.
I have already said that if Bland wasnt stupif enough to hang herself...any decent lawyer would have gotten her out of trouble later....the fact the cop was removed from raod duty for proceedure voilations is enough to get your case dropped like a hot rock these days....
I'm sorry she killed herself, but she did...and that had nothing to do with the stop or the cop involved....but that in itself doesnt make the stop correct.
TROOPER: “Step out or I’ll remove you. I’m giving you a lawful order. Get out of the car now or I’m going to remove you.”
Words do indeed mean things. I'm glad you said that. These bold words clearly indicate that it was an order, not a request. There was no ambiguity.
We are sort of splitting hairs here but:
a) I would say technically putting a please in front of an order doesn’t necessarily make it a request, but putting a would you please in front of it would makeit a request.
b) Being ordered out of the car is not an arrest. All the police officer needs is a reason to make a valid traffic stop (reasonable suspicion of a crime or traffic violation) and he instantly has authority to order you out of the car at any time during the stop for any reason or no reason. That is why the cigarette request/order/whatever is irrelevant. Even if she said, “Yes sir, right away sir!” and immediately put it out, he STILL had complete authority to order her out of the vehicle. Once she refused that order she was justified his use of force and could have been arrested.
c) If you said no to the officer’s request to exit the vehicle he absolutely could have followed up with a clear order for you to exit. If you disobeyed that order he could legally progress along use of force continuum until you complied. That could include attempting to physically Remove you, threatening to taze you, tazing you, ordering you out at gunpoint and under extreme circumstances, shooting you.