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To: RC one
As Chief Justice Fuller noted dissenting in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, applying jus soli ('right of the soil') to the Natural Born Citizen clause without jus sanguinis ('right of the blood') leads to an absurd extreme:

"It is unreasonable to conclude that 'natural-born citizen' applied to everybody born within the geographical tract known as the United States, irrespective of circumstances, and that the children of foreigners, happening to be born to them while passing through the country...were eligible to the Presidency, while children of our citizens, born abroad, were not."

Likewise, applying jus sanguinis ('right of the blood') to the Natural Born Citizen clause without jus soli ('right of the soil') leads to an equally absurd extreme. People born and raised all over the world to U.S. citizens could be president, while people born and raised in America would be ineligible due to having one or more foreign parents.

This is obviously not what was intended.

130 posted on 01/16/2016 12:56:48 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Cold Heat

CH: “Likewise, applying jus sanguinis (’right of the blood’) to the Natural Born Citizen clause without jus soli (’right of the soil’) leads to an equally absurd extreme. People born and raised all over the world to U.S. citizens could be president, while people born and raised in America would be ineligible due to having one or more foreign parents.”

This of course is the reason the requirement for the Presidency included a residency of 14 years prior to election. My opinion from clear reading of the constitution is that “jus sanguine” is the proper interpretation of natural born. It seems likely that the framers would have used the term “native born” if that was what was intended.

Citizenship of both parents would define an NBC in my opinion if you read the Constitution from an originalist standpoint. I think there have been some rulings since the founding of the Constitution that are suspect and US vs. Wong Kim Ark is very circumspect in this regard.


133 posted on 01/16/2016 2:32:50 PM PST by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: Cold Heat
You post the dissenting view in United State v. Wong Kim Ark as evidence of your argument's validity? The actual United States v. Wong Kim Ark decision as stated by Justice Gray does not support Ted Cruz's Natural born Citizenship at all:

In providing the Courts final decision oin the case, Justice Gray repeatedly affirms that citizenship and Natural Born Citizenship are derived from place of birth.

Here are a few examples:

In United States v. Rhodes (1866), Mr. Justice Swayne, sitting in the Circuit Court, said:

All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. . . . We find no warrant for the opinion [p663] that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.

And:

Again, in Levy v. McCartee (1832), 6 Pet. 102, 112, 113, 115, which concerned a descent cast since the American Revolution, in the State of New York, where the statute of 11 & 12 Will. III had been repealed, this court, speaking by Mr. Justice Story, held that the case must rest for its decision exclusively upon the principles of the common law, and treated it as unquestionable that, by that law, a child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, quoting the statement of Lord Coke in Co.Lit. 8a, that,

And:

Abbott (U.S.) 28, 40, 41.The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts, speaking by Mr. Justice (afterwards Chief Justice) Sewall, early held that the determination of the question whether a man was a citizen or an alien was "to be governed altogether by the principles of the common law," and that it was established, with few exceptions, that a man born within the jurisdiction of the common law is a citizen of the country wherein he is born. By this circumstance of his birth, he is subjected to the duty of allegiance which is claimed and enforced by the sovereign of his native land, and becomes reciprocally entitled to the protection of that sovereign, and to the other rights and advantages which are included in the term "citizenship."

Garder v. Ward (1805), 2 Mass. 244, note. And again:The doctrine of the common law is that every man born within its jurisdiction is a subject of the sovereign of the country where he is born, and allegiance is not personal to the sovereign in the extent that has been contended for; it is due to him in his political capacity of sovereign of the territory where the person owing the allegiance as born.

This line is particularly useful for those who argue that there were no NBC at the time of the adoption of the constitution:

The Supreme Court of North Carolina, speaking by Mr; Justice Gaston, said:

Before our Revolution, all free persons born within the dominions of the King of Great Britain, whatever their color or complexion, were native-born British subjects; those born out of his allegiance were aliens. . . . Upon the Revolution, no other change took place in the law of North Carolina than was consequent upon the transition from a colony dependent on an European King to a free and sovereign [p664] State; . . . British subjects in North Carolina became North Carolina freemen; . . . and all free persons born within the State are born citizens of the State. . . . The term "citizen," as understood in our law, is precisely analogous to the term "subject" in the common law, and the change of phrase has entirely resulted from the change of government. The sovereignty has been transferred from one man to the collective body of the people, and he who before as a "subject of the king" is now "a citizen of the State."

Chancellor Kent, in his Commentaries, speaking of the "general division of the inhabitants of every country under the comprehensive title of aliens and natives," says:

Natives are all persons born within the jurisdiction and allegiance of the United States. This is the rule of the common law, without any regard or reference to the political condition or allegiance of their parents, with the exception of the children of ambassadors, who are in theory born within the allegiance of the foreign power they represent. . . . To create allegiance by birth, the party must be born not only within the territory, but within the ligeance of the government. If a portion of the country be taken and held by conquest in war, the conqueror acquires the rights of the conquered as to its dominion and government, and children born in the armies of a State, while [p665] abroad and occupying a foreign country, are deemed to be born in the allegiance of the sovereign to whom the army belongs. It is equally the doctrine of the English common law that, during such hostile occupation of a territory, and the parents be adhering to the enemy as subjects de facto, their children, born under such a temporary dominion, are not born under the ligeance of the conquered.

Mr. Binney, in his paper above cited, after a critical examination of the statute and of the early English cases, concluded:

And this next line is especially damaging to your reasoning.

There is nothing in the statute which would justify the conclusion that it is declaratory of the common law in any but a single particular, namely in regard to the children of the King; nor has it at any time been judicially held to be so. . . . The notion that there is any common law principle to naturalize the children born in foreign countries, of native-born American father and mother, father or mother, must be discarded. There is not, and never was, any such common law principle.

The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.

Order affirmed.

137 posted on 01/16/2016 9:59:41 PM PST by RC one (race baiting and demagoguery-if you're a Democrat it's what you do.)
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