Posted on 02/09/2016 6:01:09 AM PST by zek157
Oh Oh...
There's a clean question on the table regarding dual citizenship for persons born in Canada prior to 1977 (when they changed their law to officially recognize dual nationality.)
Prior to that date, with few exceptions, you could not hold dual nationality with Canada. In other words the very act of "renouncing" Canadian Citizenship means that Cruz never held US citizenship at birth because his parents had to declare his nationality at the time he was born.
There may be exceptions that were available at the time but the law now is immaterial.
The only material fact is what the law was then, in 1970, in Canada when Cruz was born.
If his parents declared US for him then he had nothing to renounce and he has a document called a Consular Report of Birth Abroad.
This is the legal equivalent of a US Birth Certificate and Cruz either has one from the time of his birth or he does not. If he does not then he is not a US Citizen as he was never naturalized by his own admission and at birth the nation in which he was born did not recognize dual nationality.
Where is that document Cruz? Your mother's birth certificate is immaterial. What matters is whether you were declared a Canadian or US Citizen at birth and what documentation you have to prove it.
You see, in 1970 there was no "and" option.
Cruz either has that Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which is his legal proof of US Citizenship just as my Birth Certificate is mine, or he doesn't and he's not a citizen at all as his parents declared his citizenship as Canadian and the land he were born in prohibited dual nationality at the time.
If he doesn't have that document, of course, there's a little problem with the office Senator Cruz holds now, say much less his running for President.
Please read your own post “Also, mom and dad had to be married” my reply was to that assertion.
I will amend my statement to read As a legal document required to get either a FS-240 or US passport it satisfies one of the requirement’s, the other’s being the Mother or Fathers US Passport and Birth Certificates and child’s BC.
His Mom's BC, his Canadian BC and there was a third thing, I forget what it was.
The point here and to the OP is not the FS-240 but the documents required to get a FS-240. Absence of the FS-240 is not proof that that the child is not a US Citizen at birth
I said as much in post 59.
Tend to agree, so where's the Consular Report of Birth to put this to rest then, and why hasn't Cruz provided it?
This whole issue would go away 15 minutes after Cruz produced it, instead it appears we have the Republican equivalent of Obama here.
More and more, so-called "legal scholars" are divided on whether or not Cruz is a natural born citizen. Despite the claims of others on this forum, the USSC has not ruled on cases such as Cruz's either.
This issue isn't going to go away unless either Cruz produces the Consular Report of Birth, or this goes through the Courts.
If this has to go through the courts, I expect Cruz will be toast. No way the Republican Party wants their own "Obama citizenship" issue on their hands. They can't be that stupid, can they?!
Correct! The very things the founders wished to avoid in the case of our CIC.
Having just recently concluded a bloody revolution, would the founders have accepted a CIC born in England to a subject of England?
Of course not. For this office alone they specified the highest form, NBC. The USSC later stipulated that form was birth within to two parents (also historically known to include two parents abroad in service to the country).
It is not surprising in the dynamic, fluid FR environment that good arguments will bump into themselves or overlap. Mine are usually off the top (at the same time I am chewing gum) while yours are almost always annotated. Would you add me to your ping list if you have one?
Gotcha.
By approximately the same people. So which one of the two reflect "original intent?"
Nevermind that the plain "shall be considered as" language of the 1790 statute creates a legal fiction - an alien shall be considered as a citizen.
And what if they never passed the act?
SCOTUS cases are well aware of the 1790 act. ALL of them consider the act to one that created a naturalized citizen.
I've had people tell me the case law is irrelevant, and that the repealed 1790 act controls the outcome. Go figure.
No it wouldn't. A CRBA is prima facie evidence of being naturalized, but Cruz would deny that, and most of the public would be fooled on the same logic they are fooled by now.
Anybody whose citizenship depends on an act of Congress is naturalized, whether that act makes them declare intent, go through a ceremony, or not. The legal act of making an alien into a citizen, no matter how that is done, is naturalization.
Cruz knows it. But his ambition depends on making people believe something he knows to be false.
Opps strike the first I
You so funny. Everyone has seen Trumps mothers US naturalization documents, which she received four years before Trump was born. She was an American citizen when Trump was born.
The thing with applying for ONLY the passport? If you click links you will find that listed in the required documents for a first time passport; CRBA, or certificate of citizenship. Yeah, it’s a circular thing.
I am trying to get clarification from official sources, but have not heard back yet.
Cruzs campaign told the Dallas news that his mother had applied at the consulate on his behalf, and that he got a passport when he was a teen so that he could go abroad on a class trip. The word was “consulate”, not the US State Dept.
As to the acceptable forms for the Passport the the CRBA is one of those,the others are the documents that are required to get the CRBA in the first place. The CRBA is a consolidation document.
You are speculating that Ted’s mom left the US and lived in Britain with husband 1, then moved to Canada to live with husband 2.
Ted’s mom was 35 when Ted was born.
You are speculating Ted’s mom never dot any documents to live, or even work, in a foreign country.
Folks who live 5-10 years may with to become permanent residents in their adopted Country.
Your position is full of unsubstantiated opinions, you have no knowledge of the Cruz family history.
The ends never justify the means!
Lots of people have a Birth Certificate from one Country, and choose to be a Citizen of a different Country
Ted's mom did not move from England to Canada. She met Ted's dad here in the US. They moved to Canada to work, but she could not have been a Canadian citizen when Ted was born. She had not lived in Canada long enough to apply even if she intended to. So regardless, she was an American citizen when Ted was born. Thus, Ted was born an American citizen.
By the way, you can ignore the drivel about Canada not allowing dual citizenship at the time. It didn't matter what Canada allowed. The US does not permit the laws of other nations to affect the citizenship of its people. So no matter what Canada thought, the US considered Ted a citizen from the moment of birth.
Some of those documents: US citizen parents proof of length of time residing abroad, proof of current US citizenship status, etc. In fact, it’s quite a list, and certainly much more onerous than some on here suggest as “just Teds birth cert and his mothers birth cert” being the only documents he would need to acquire the first passport.
Teds own campaign:
“Dated a month after his birth on Dec. 22, 1970, it shows that Rafael Edward Cruz was born to Rafael Bienvenido Cruz, a ‘geophysical consultant” born in Matanzas, Cuba, and the former Eleanor Elizabeth Wilson, born in Wilmington, Del.
She registered his birth with the U.S. consulate, Frazier said, and the future senator received a U.S. passport in 1986 ahead of a high school trip to England.”
According to this article, there should be a CRBA.
bkmk
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.