Something to Think About

February 10, 2016 | Me

[TexasCajun]

The RNC should be responsible for vetting & qualifying all the candidates before primary voting begins.

[nesnah]

Totally agree, but we would be foolish to assume they are honorable people acting in a way to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.

[bigbob]

Rogers v. Bellei

Very interesting, obviously I’m not a lawyer but I don’t remember seeing any reference to this case in previous threads.

The point is, I think there will be legal challenges against Cruz on the citizenship issue if he becomes the nominee, and as Trump has said that will disrupt the entire campaign and creat mass chaos. And to those who say “Obama got away with it”, well all I can say is “welcome to the real world, where different standards apply”> Gov. Walker was subject to inquisitions in Wisconsin that previous democrat leaders would never have been challenged on - “life’s not fair”.

I do not put anything past the GOPe. They are smart enough to realize this is an existential fight for the Republican party and the power and money it represents and controls.

[HarleyLady27]

I think this should be brought front and center right now...not mentioning Cruz here...

Obama’s supporters will tell everyone who will listen that Barack Obama produced his real birth certificate in 2011. A single reporter - Savannah Guthrie of NBC news - was allowed to see the ‘real’ document, and then it was scanned as a PDF file and loaded into the internet for everyone to see. As far as the Obama crowd is concerned, that’s the end of the story.

The only problem for Obama is that numerous electronic document experts have shown, using steps that anyone can repeat with if they have the proper software, that the document the White House so proudly uploaded is not simply a scanned version of an original paper document. Instead, it’s what’s called a ‘layered’ document. A document that’s scanned will have only one layer, which is the image itself. A ‘layered,’ electronically manipulated document will show one electronic addition after another. The White House’s birth certificate PDF has nine layers. This was an assembled electronic document, not a scanned paper document.

Once Obama left college and started trying to build a career as a writer, he got himself a literary agent named Acton & Dystel. This company put together a little booklet describing its stable of writers. For Barack Obama;s bio, the agency boasted that Obama was ‘born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.’

OK, now how I see this is he wasn’t born on American Soil...which is the Constitution requirement for President or V.P. to have....and he lied (as he still does)....

My whole point is we should fight this, if we come out and are right, he will be removed from our history in the fact that his presidency was fake and everything he did will be erased, his 8 years, his EO’s, everything...

This is why we should fight this...BORN ON AMERICAN SOIL...

[Cboldt]

-- I don't remember seeing any reference to this case [ Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971)] in previous threads. --

It's all over the place in the birther threads. Has been for six weeks or so.

[iontheball]

It may be an interesting question, but whatever we think doesn’t matter. Everything that could be said has been said already, ad nauseum. Only, and I say again, only a Federal Court has the jurisdictional authority to address and decide the question. That decision would be appealed and ultimately decided by the Supreme Court.

[kiltie65]

Yup, this U.S. citizenship needs to be clearly defined once and for all, and I hope whomever the Republican President is (most likely Trump or Cruz) I hope that is an important agenda item for that person. Close that loophole legislatively now...or maybe wait a bit until we have a few replacements on the Supreme Court, but “git er done”..

[Andy'smom]

A friend of mine was born in Germany when her father was serving in the US army. They moved home when she was a toddler. At 18, she received a letter from the German government offering her citizenship as she was born there.

[katana]

To answer your question about citizenship of children born overseas to American parents, our daughters were born in Belgium but their births were registered with the American Embassy within days. They have consular birth certificates and had their own passports for their first trip home at age seven months. I believe they would qualify as natural born American citizens as both their parents were and are the same. Under Belgian law they had the right to claim citizenship after reaching age sixteen. German law is probably similar. It seems that under Canadian law Cruz was considered a citizen, something he said he was unaware of and formally renounced when he found out.

On the basis of his political outlook on the Constitution and limited Federal authority (10th amendment) and demonstrated willingness to throw sand in the gears of the Obama Quisling Republican combine Cruz is my preferred candidate. If it is decided at some point by a court or the electors of the Electoral College that he is not qualified I'd find that regrettable, but he remains the person I'd most trust to restore government to its proper role and to nominate the next two to four appointees to the US Supreme Court. I like a lot of what Donald Trump says but I do not trust that he would carry through on any of it. That is my honest assessment of the man but I'm not going to call anyone stupid whose opinion and preference differs.

[Nea Wood]

If you’re a Cruz supporter, then being born on foreign soil to one American citizen makes you a natural born citizen. If you’re not a Cruz supporter, it doesn’t.

If you’re a Rubio supporter, being born on American soil is all that’s needed to be a natural born citizen. If you’re not a Rubio supporter, it isn’t.

That seems to be the bottom line around here.

[arthurus]

Natural Born
as it was pre Obama/McCain- born within the borders of the United States and having a father whose father is a citizen. That understanding is no longer current. WEe are very close to, if not at, the reality that anyone in the world qualifies to be President of the United States so long as he complies with the other provisions of the Constitution- be 35 years old and a resident of the USA for x (I forget, 5 or 7) number of years. That has been a leftest position since at least WWII because what America does affects the whole world.

[Bob434]

The statute which stripped Bellei of his citizenship was repealed by the U.S. Congress in 1978.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_v._Bellei

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 requires an alien to apply for a petition for naturalization.

This form may be obtained from any office of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, a division of the Department of Justice, or from any court authorized to naturalize aliens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

We can be pretty certain that Ted wasn’t an alien because to the best of our knowledge, He hasn’t applied for naturalization, nor has he been required to- He was a citizen ‘at birth’ under 1401 g)- Those arguing that the removal of ‘natural born citizen’ from the 1709 by the 1795 act somehow disqualifies Ted overlook the fact that recent 1409 states that in order to be a citizen ‘at birth’ one simply must be born to a US citizen, either on soil or off

[[Section 301(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (the Act), grants citizenship at birth to persons born abroad having one alien parent and one parent who is a United States citizen. Section 301(b) of the Act, however, states that said citizens shall lose citizenship unless they live in the United States for at least five consecutive years between the ages of 14 and 28

Holding and Rule (Blackmun)

Yes. Congress has the power to revoke the citizenship of a non-naturalized citizen of the United States by imposing conditions subsequent regarding residency.

Dissent (Black)

The Court today holds that Congress can indeed rob a citizen of his citizenship just so long as five members of this Court can satisfy themselves that the congressional action was not unreasonable, arbitrary, or unlawful. This test does not appear in the Constitution.

The Court today is overruling its holding in Afroyim that no one can be deprived of citizenship without his assent.]]

http://www.lawnix.com/cases/rogers-bellei.html

[beachn4fun]

Again, based on Jus Soli & Jus Sanguinis, my previous comment, If "my" interpretation is correct, then, Obama and Cruz are mute points and the debate of "natural born" needs to be put to rest. stands.

Thanks for that.

[beachn4fun]

Thanks to all who came to discuss and contribute and share valuable information.