[Heartlander]

Who created the creator does not apply if the creator exists outside of the physical creation. It would be like asking how long it would take to create time? - or how much area it takes to create space? - it does not apply and there also needs to be an ultimate cause (Aristotle's prime mover).

But now if your brain (the mind no longer applies) comes from mindlessness - who gives a crap? Why believe anything or trust your thoughts? - it's just an organ supplied by evolution for survival - like your liver or anus?

[muir_redwoods]

Do you have any support for these thoughts? I see no logic behind what you are saying. At what point did we agree that it is possible to step outside the realm where all of “creation” resides?