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To: spetznaz

According to FBI and other stats, certain 9, 357, 40 and 45 all approach 95_% one shot stopping capability.

On the other hand, a 9 may expand, but a 45 won’t ever shrink.....

The 9 may be more “shootable” for some, but 40s and 45s are not difficult to learn to shoot well either.

What I find amazing I is the shot/hit ratio compared between citizens and LEs. 6 and 4 compared to 14 and 3.....


73 posted on 05/24/2016 6:13:55 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Manly Warrior
It is indeed interesting to see the hit/miss ration for civilians versus LE, but not that surprising with all honesty. For many cops, a firearm is basically a tool for a job. For many civilians (unfortunately not all), a firearm is basically a tool for a job but also a passion. As it is a passion, they tend to spend a lot of time at the range, or competing at IDPA (and similar) competitions. This basically makes the average practicing civilian much better with a firing iron than the average LEO.

As for being more shootable - it is true that the 9mm is more shootable than the .40/45, but that is only part of the equation. There is capacity as well, there is also price (much cheaper to shoot 9mm, even if you reload other calibers), and then there is the projectile itself. While it is true that a .45 will 'never shrink,' the fact is that modern 9mm projectiles (like the HST 147gr) have extremely consistent expansion - and what's interesting is that the 147gr HST expands more than most .40 HPs, and bonded rounds like the Critical Duty 135gr outperformed .45 caliber rounds in the FBI protocol. Basically, modern 9mm ammo will match (and even outperform) their larger caliber cousins, not to mention aspects such as cost and speed of shooting (not just shootability, but also the speed of follow-on shots).

There is a reason teams like Delta moved from their highly customized 1911s chambered in .45 to Glocks chambered in .40 and now to Glocks chambered in 9mm (with the SEALs recently following Delta, SF and MARSOC to Glocks in 9mm). Lighter platform, increased round count, measurably faster follow-up shots, and with modern HPs (and the special unit teams use HPs), the same level of lethality as found in .45s.

Most importantly, if someone does their job the round will do its job. By this I mean if both you and I are great shots (and I don't just mean putting holes in paper, but dynamic shooting), and I am armed with my Glock 17 (went up from the 19 I had last year) that is loaded with 147gr HSTs, and you are armed with a Kimber 1911 in .45 that is loaded with 230gr Gold Dots.

Right, so we face off against goblins. As we are both proficient, our shots are going to be accurate, they are going to be quick, the bullets will find their mark.

There is no way that the goblin you hit with the .45 Gold Dot is going to notice any difference from the goblin I hit with the 9mm HST, and vice versa. That's the wonder of modern ammo - the 'rules of thumb' that made a lot of sense decades ago (.45s don't shrink, Moro Moro Islamic tribesmen needed .45s to put them down, etc etc) do not apply much nowadays.

If you hit your goblin several times center mass, and I hit my goblin several times center mass, the results will be exactly the same. The only difference is that I will still have more rounds left in my magazine than you had when your magazine was full, and round capacity is important. Why? Please see the excerpt below on a cop who used to carry .45, had an 'interesting' experience, and now carries 9mm.

But bottom line is this - with modern ammo (modern HPs and not FMJs or old-tech HPs), a 9mm is more than adequate for all homo sapien-related shooting, and may even be better than .40 or .45 for the reasons I listed above. That doesn't mean that .40 and .45 (or even 10mm) are bad rounds, not at all.

Here's the link of the cop who used to carry .45 and now carries 9mm:

Why one cop carries 145 rounds on the job

74 posted on 05/25/2016 2:16:07 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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