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To: vetvetdoug

The legal basis for secession is murky. If you view the Constitution as a compact or legal agreement among the members to the compact, then if any member of the union violates the terms of the agreement, then the compact is broken for all the members and, hence, they can secede. In this regard the southern states had the right to secede since the northern states were trying their damnedest to abrogate the “peculiar institution” of slavery and so violated several clauses of the Constitution. Opposed to this position is the idea stated in the preamble to the Constitution that the document is on behalf of “we the people,” which means the Constitution is a national document applying to all people and all states and not a compact. However, the Supreme Court has ruled that the preamble to the Constitution does not have the force of law. And over all this is the fact that secession is not prohibited by the Constitution, which implies that secession is permitted. The only sure way to deciding the matter would probably be a Constitutional Convention.


93 posted on 06/17/2016 12:25:34 AM PDT by Hootowl
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To: Hootowl

If states are “not allowed” to secede, then we are not a FREE Republic nor a FREE people. We would be prisoners of a tyrannical government and its “rulers”.

A tyrannical government is not what our founding fathers had in mind. They fought to be FREE from Tyranny.

We don’t need another Constitutional Convention. We just need to FREE our people from the current tyrants that rule over us, and replace them with patriots who “govern”, not “rule”.


94 posted on 06/17/2016 12:32:56 AM PDT by Right-wing Librarian (~~)
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To: Hootowl; wideawake
In this regard the southern states had the right to secede since the northern states were trying their damnedest to abrogate the “peculiar institution” of slavery and so violated several clauses of the Constitution.

The free states violated nothing. The D@mned Slave Power was forcing its way into the entire country regardless of the moral beliefs of the people just like "gay marriage" has done. You neo-Confederates aren't going to like that, but it's true. Let's face it: some conservatives (including some FReepers) have a very ethnocentric view of conservatism.

First the Slave Power passed the Compromise of 1850 which included a federal fugitive slave, up to which time the return of fugitive slaves (mandated in the Constitution) was carried out by local authorities who had a greater ability to make sure no Black person was misidentified and impressed into slavery. Then came the Kansas-Nebraska Act which repealed the Missouri Compromise, not only turning Kansas into a bloody hell but making the same thing possible throughout the rest of the Northern states of the Louisiana Purchase.

Oh, and let's not forget how the Dred Scott decision then paved the way for the introduction of slavery throughout the whole country followed by the caning of Senator Charles Sumner by Preston Brooks, leaving him crippled for years and which act is still defended by many conservatives to this day because it represented feudal European "honor!" Gad!

And finally after the election of Abraham Lincoln (the first Republican President beside which every one of you neo-Confederates is a RINO) won the election in 1860 leading the Cotton States to pitch a hissy fit and pulled out before the man had even been inaugurated to commit any "Yankee outrage against Southern womanhood!"

For you people a conservative is someone who wants to conserve European civilization. You have no concept of Universal Objective Religious Truth. You prattle about "G-d-given rights" when the most basic of them for your ancestors and ideological forebears was to own other people, and yes, I agree that there is a true Biblical Halakhic slavery which is beyond human questioning, but I doubt very seriously any of you are the least bit interested in learning about it.

Your holy land is Europe. Your holy of holies is European genes and chromosomes. You label Abraham Lincoln a centralizing Communist dictator while praising the similarly centralizing Jefferson Davis (he came from "good European stock") as well as other centralizers such as Papadopoulos, Franco, Salazar, Chiang, Pinochet, etc. (and yes, they were better than the Communists but I don't go around slamming Abraham Lincoln while praising them). John Brown was an insane Communist terrorist because he was against slavery; if he had committed the same acts to do away with abortion you'd all consider him a hero!

I don't rule out the possibility of favoring secession some time in the future myself, but let's please stop reducing "our liberties" to having Anglo-Celtic-European genes and chromosomes!

You people hate Black people so much, yet you each apparently want to own one. Why? To spread "subversive African Communism" among your frail Southern belles?

Obama's worst crime is to turn people against the Union and Abraham Lincoln. I can't wait for the Free State of Jones to come out so FReepers can condemn the actual historical people as "globalist hippie faggot Obamabots!"

105 posted on 06/17/2016 12:18:25 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (HaShem first! Anything else is idolatry, a violation of the very first commandment!)
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