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To: Talisker; daniel1212
I have some news for you - the Bible doesn't SAY anything. The Bible is a book of words. PEOPLE say what THEY THINK the Bible means - including you, and including Daniel1212. And then they HIDE THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS BEHIND THE BIBLE.

...But the Bible DOESN'T say anything. People like YOU say that it says things, while setting yourself up as arbiters of God's word without ever having to admit that it is nothing but your personal OPINION.

And what about you? That's the obvious question here.

Why leave yourself out of "PEOPLE say what THEY THINK the Bible means," "And then they HIDE THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS BEHIND THE BIBLE," and "People like YOU say that it says things, while setting yourself up as arbiters of God's word without ever having to admit that it is nothing but your personal OPINION."

So, then, you make remarks like this, and even quote from the Bible to make your points, then say it outright how well you know the Bible, and what your authority is to do so.

The Catholics and the Protestants have, to all of the most important extents, the SAME Bible. Yet both interpret the SAME words so differently that they declare the other heretics and bound for HELL. Think this is a trivial issue? Even Protestant sects feel that way about each other, over the SAME Bible

Differences over Bible interpretation isn't a trivial issue. No one has said or suggested it is. But that issue has nothing to do directly with your claims.

Once again, I go back to your response to Hillary Clinton's claim of faith. She has also claimed to be guided by the Bible. So the Bible is so impossible to interpret that it's not possible to say she's wrong?

Bible interpretation also isn't a new issue. It is as old as God's Word itself, and the Bible itself instructs Christians (and anyone willing to be instructed by it) on how to interpret it, and how to interpret how others are intrepreting it.

And yes, Christians still disagree on some things the Bible says, and this has caused some divisions, of both greater and lesser extent.

In John 7:17-18, Jesus said this: "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."

Seeking God's glory is to seek to do God's will. In this world, the ultimate Judge of that is God's Word, and the other judges of it are those who seek to do God's will. While there are no human judges who interpret the Bible perfectly, some are much closer to what it says, and some are far away.

There are some avowed Christians, leaders and pastors of churches even, who say that the Bible is just another book concerning spiritual things, written by men. They say God doesn't exist, but is the invention of men, and the importance of Christianity is that it contains some spiritual truths, like other religions do.

That is not close to what the Bible says. It's far away, and not faithful to it, though a pastor who believes that might preach some lessons from the Bible in his church. And the Bible is the judge that shows this pastor isn't being faithful to it, and people who are seeking to do God's will can observe that.

Finally, we only know in part, in this world, as Paul said, but one day all will be known. Yet until then, we are still called upon to make judgments, according to how God has instructed us to in His Word. So we are to call a pastor who rejects God's authorship of the Bible a heretic, and to warn others that he teaches heresy.

If the Bible could SAY anything, then there would not be these gigantic rifts in understanding. But the Bible DOESN'T say anything.

I've already responded to this in part, but will add agreement with a point Daniel made about what you said. That is a secular humanist/liberal view of the written word, that it doesn't really say anything, but the meaning just resides in the reader. So anyone's interpretation is just as good as anyone else's.

Because it seems to me you missed that entire "I know you not" part of Jesus' teachings. You know, what he said towards hypocrites who did "wonders" in His name? That one.

Again, you say Trump's "wonders" MUST have been done through his faith, and yet you post this? I certainly can't say he's a hypocrite. I hope he isn't. But it remains to be seen if he will demonstrate faith.

Do you have any doubt that ONLY the power of God could enable Trump to take on - and defeat - EVERY demonic power trying to destroy America? And do you also think such power comes WITHOUT FAITH?

I've definitely seen the power of God at work in his candidacy. But again, God can use people as His instruments. Ahab isn't the only example of that in the Bible.

And again, much remains to be seen. At this point, Trump has, for instance, backed off supporting Christians who don't believe men should be allowed in Ladies' rooms and women's locker rooms (and vice versa).

And without getting into its apparent connections to the 2016 race, there is the prospect of America being under pending judgment, as indicated by the connections between 9/11 and the Bible passage Isaiah 9:10. Are you aware of that connection between Isaiah 9:10 and 9/11?

222 posted on 06/28/2016 12:10:23 PM PDT by Faith Presses On (Above all, politics should serve the Great Commission, "preparing the way for the Lord.")
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To: Faith Presses On; daniel1212
I certainly don't exclude myself from what I'm saying - I never have. My opinions about the meaning of the Bible are just that - my opinions. I don't hide behind the idea that the Bible is "saying" something, and I'm just reporting it. That, however, is exactly what I hear you doing and defending doing, and I don't accept it, from you, Daniel1212 or anyone else. People hide behind their religions, as if the religion is just stuck to them and they have nothing to do with it. They conveniently forget that they choose that religion, and they also choose their own personally accepted interpretations of the Bible. That they are fully responsible for their own beliefs, just as you and I are. The difference is that I accept my beliefs AS my beliefs, and I don't claim that they're anyone else's.

Also, I've found that the narrower the door, and the higher the barriers people demand for accepting someone else's beliefs as "valid", they more they claim the Bible is speaking on its own, and religion is speaking on its own, and they are just the humble messenger. IMO, to such people, Jesus says "I know you not."

And really, how hard is it to simply say that your religious beliefs are yours? And why should that be such an outrageous thing to demand? After all, it's so obviously true.

223 posted on 06/28/2016 4:34:43 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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