Chuck Berry, revolutionary guitarist-songwriter, dead at 90

Chicago Tribune ^ | March 18, 2017 | Greg Kot

[Davy Crocket]

He was a legend wasn’t he?

[Snowybear]

Most of Berry’s hit songs were written by a friend of his. Google it. Many respects to him. One of the founders. His private life left a lot to be desired.

[wardaddy]

Sam Phillips

If Nick Saban or Vince Lombardi were record label owners producers

[Jolla]

That is how I saw him in San Diego in 1989, tiny club in the corner of a shopping center, bass and drummer were 25 maybe, they were playing, he was late then walked in, tuned his guitar, talked to the two guys, it appeared they had not met, then put on a one hour show that was just great, there were maybe 60 people there. Better than Jerry Lee Lewis but just barely, not quite as good as Elton John or the Stones but those were productions.

[Jack Black]

When the average person thinks of rock and roll, they normally think of Elvis Presley, who predated Chuck Berry.

Elvis's first recordings were more country music. In July of 1954 he recorded "That's All Right" which became a regional hit. Not too many people would call that a Rock and Roll record. He played at the Grand Ole Opry in Oct. of 1955, behind that song.

Elvis's first major label recording was "Heatbreak Hotel", which was released by RCA in January, 1956. Later than spring he recorded "Blue Suede Shoes", a Carl Perkins song which most people would consider Rock and Roll.

Chuck Berry released "Mabelline" in May of 1955. It was a big hit, reaching #1 on Billboard's R&B charts and #5 on the "in the stores" chart. Berry followed up with "Roll Over Beethovan" in June of 1956, clearly a rock song.

Interesting that both Chuck Berry and Elvis were influenced by Carl Perkins. Chuck toured with him in a 1956 All-Star tour, and Elvis recorded his song "Blue Suede Shoes" that same year.

Which brings up that maybe they were both following slightly behind the real beginning of the music. Wikipedia lists a whole bunch of records as candidates for the first rock record.

Because the development of rock and roll was an evolutionary process, no single record can be identified as unambiguously "the first" rock and roll record.[36]

Contenders for the title of "first rock and roll record" include "The Fat Man" by Fats Domino (1949),[36] Sister Rosetta Tharpe's "Strange Things Happening Everyday" (1944),[37] Goree Carter's "Rock Awhile" (1949),[38] Jimmy Preston's "Rock the Joint" (1949), which was later covered by Bill Haley & His Comets in 1952,[39] "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and his Delta Cats (Ike Turner and his band The Kings of Rhythm), recorded by Sam Phillips for Sun Records in March 1951.[40]

In terms of its wide cultural impact across society in the US and elsewhere, Bill Haley's "Rock Around the Clock",[41] recorded in April 1954 but not a commercial success until the following year, is generally recognized as an important milestone, but it was preceded by many recordings from earlier decades in which elements of rock and roll can be clearly discerned.[36][42][43]

So from my way of thinking I would not say that Elvis predated Chuck, nor really the opposite. They both came to the worlds attention in the same short period: mid 1955 through end of 1956, by which time both were stars.

[Jack Black]

FEW black guitarists ever in serious stardom

OK, from memory a quick list of the others:

Jimi Hendrix
Prince
B.B. King
Bo Diddley
Muddy Waters
Buddy Guy
Freddie King
Albert King
Robert Cray
Lenny Kravitz

A bunch of these are the most famous players of the Blues, which, had dozens of other famous black guitaristrs, but they were not world-famous on the order of Hendrix or Chuck Berry who were real super-stars. Someone like John Lee Hooker, famous to some, but probably unknown to most. Might cover some of those on my list above too.

[Night Hides Not]

Wish I could have seen him live. Saw Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee.

If you have the CMT cable channel, I recommend their miniseries "Sun Records", about Sam Phillips and Sun Studio in Memphis.

The first few episodes have been plodding in spots, but I'm looking forward to this week's episode, looks like Elvis recording his first record there.

To stand on the spot where these giants recorded their first records, I couldn't help but feel in awe of the place. The tour at Sun Studio is really interesting, my boys enjoyed it, too, including my 6 YO grandson.

[Night Hides Not]

Thanks for ruining this week's episode of "Sun Records" on CMT (Thursday nights)...lol.

It's ok, I read the book about Sun Records, an American original.

[Terry Mross]

There was some things on display once at Mud Island that had to do with Memphis. One item was the control board Sam Phillips used to make all those records. It was a little 5 track about 2 feet wide.

[the OlLine Rebel]

Yes, many in the strictly blues category, but none frankly of the superstardom of Chuck Berry - or Prince (whom I’m not sure is pure black; even his music is B&W).

Jimi Hendrix - another of the hippie generation that never really had a hit, but is well known mostly because of the hippie culture San-Fran sound thing. Overrated, as far as being a true star who actually churned out hits.

[the OlLine Rebel]

‘In July of 1954 he recorded “That’s All Right”...Not too many people would call that a Rock and Roll record’

I would. At least, as a country fan as well, I would sooner call it R&R than country, even for back then.

‘”Blue Suede Shoes”, a Carl Perkins song which most people would consider Rock and Roll.’

The Elvis version yes. The Perkins version is much more country (and I never liked it as much).

As to the original argument about “King of Rock”, I agree with the historical assessment. But honestly, being the “King” doesn’t mean “granddaddy”, or “daddy”, or even the 1st one. It means “the best”, in this case, who generated the most hits and the most fanaticism (for the type, even more than the artist himself).

E.g., “King of Pop” for MJ is probably a serious misnomer, as he is nowhere close the originator of “pop” (i.e., popular music). Just recognized in his time for being hugely popular and consequently, influential.

I don’t mind calling Elvis King of R&R based on those criteria, but certainly not aghast at Berry being so. He certainly had the hits, unlike many fringe pretenders often pushed by fringe purists.

[Jack Black]

Jimi Hendrix - another of the hippie generation that never really had a hit, but is well known mostly because of the hippie culture San-Fran sound thing. Overrated, as far as being a true star who actually churned out hits.

Come on man, you're joking, right? He certainly didn't chart like Elvis but he's not known "because of the hippy culture San Francisco thing". He's mostly known because he was odds on the greatest electric rock guitar player who ever lived. It's not just opinion, it's shared by many of his peers.

Rolling Stone's "100 Greatest Guitarists: David Fricke's Picks" - #1 Jimi Hendrix.

From another article in "Classic Rock" magazine:

ERIC CLAPTON: He definitely pulled the rug out from under Cream. I told people like Pete Townshend about him and we’d go and see him.

PETE TOWNSHEND: The thing that really stunned Eric and me was the way he took what we did and made it better. And I really started to try to play. I thought I’d never, ever be as great as he is, but there’s certainly no reason now why I shouldn’t try. In fact, I remember saying to Eric, “I’m going to play him off the stage one day.” But what Eric did was even more peculiar. He said, “Well, I’m going to pretend that I am Jimi Hendrix!”

BRIAN MAY: I’d heard the solo on Stone Free and refused to believe that someone could actually play this. It had to be some kind of studio trickery, the way he talks to the guitar and the guitar talks back to him. I was already playing in a band called Smile and I thought I was a reasonably good guitarist, so I knew it wasn’t possible. So I went to the Saville, determined to be a disbeliever, but I was swept off my feet. I thought, “This guy is the most astounding thing I’ve ever seen.” And he did the Stone Free solo live, absolutely perfectly. It was back to the drawing board for me.

JEFF BECK: For me, the first shockwave was Jimi Hendrix. That was the major thing that shook everybody up. Even though we’d all established ourselves as fairly safe in the guitar field, he came along and reset all of the rules in one evening. Next thing you know, Eric was moving ahead with Cream, and it was kicking off in big chunks.

JOE SATRIANI: Red House was a nod to his blues roots. I think the most underrated part of his playing is his sense of melody in everything he played, his way-in-the-pocket rhythm playing, and his combining of both into memorable parts that defined each song as a unique piece of music.

LESLIE WEST (guitarist, Mountain): I heard Hendrix playing Are You Experienced and I said, “What the fuck is this?” It blew my mind! The way he used that whammy bar? Forget about it. He’d knock those strings out of tune and then he’d stretch them right back into tune. The guy was unreal.

JOE BONAMASSA: I don’t think there’s any music that you hear on the radio today that would be possible without Jimi Hendrix.

STEVIE RAY VAUGHAN: I loved Jimi a lot. He was so much more than just a blues guitarist. He could do anything.

JIMI HENDRIX: I’ve been imitated so well I’ve heard people copy my mistakes.

[the OlLine Rebel]

This is typical fringe-element discussion. Just because some act developed a “niche” of fanatics does not mean it actually was popular or truly reached into the average person’s life. The fringe fanatics tend to congregate on the ‘net, and so they now think their idol is even bigger than already errantly believed.

Jimi Hendrix may be some kind of “great guitarist” acknowledged by other artists (and we know how much that really means on balance, given their opinions on movies and other bits of art), but he was NOT actually a superstar. Some fringe people really, really like him, but that doesn’t mean most people do.

And that is what the opinion is about. Not a true superstar.

[Jack Black]

Maybe you have to be a serious guitar player to understand.

I actually agree with your "not a superstar" in the sense that Michael Jackson or Madonna were. But then I'm not sure even Chuck Berry, the original topic of the thread is really in that category, either.

OTOH if you go to a guitar store and tell the clerk you want a guitar like Hendrix played he'll A) know who you are talking about and B) hand you a Strat. This is likely true even if he's a 20 year old clerk working in a music store in Thailand. That is a very real type of world-spanning fame that few achieve.

Playing any instrument at a very high level requires a level of dedication and concentration that most people just are not capable of. So, when you find a large group of musicians who uniformly put someone on a pinnacle like that it is meaningful. Think Charlie Parker and John Coltrane as saxophone players, or Buddy Rich as a drummer.

Your use of the word "fringe" in this case is wildly inaccurate. Sure there are people who are fringe stars, but he's not one of them.