Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: Rockingham
Lincoln did not order an attack on Charleston.

He ordered an attack on anyone who would prevent them from landing supplies. That meant attacking the Confederate force there that was siegeing Sumter.

His orders said bloodshed, and so they took him at his word.

Davis could and should have avoided hostilities by ordering that a peaceful resupply of Fort Sumter be permitted.

You say that, but I believe that is completely wrong. Lincoln was intent on starting hostilities, and he had a separate mission attempting to start hostilities at Ft. Pickens, but it is not much discussed because the Sumter incident sucked up all the oxygen.

Instead, Davis ordered that the fort be fired upon and reduced.

Davis did not order it, the Secretary of War ordered it, and it was not open ended the way you portray it. The order was that if Beauregard believed the agent with whom he was speaking regarding the hostile intent of the flotilla of warships then off the coast of Charleston, he was to proceed to reduce the fort.

The "agent" was presumably a spy for the South who had brought word of Lincoln's orders regarding the fleet, and obviously Beauregard believed the agent about the hostile intent of these ships, because he opened fire in accordance with the directive he had been given.

If you have no doubt of the authorized character of the agent who communicated to you the intention of the Washington Government to supply Fort Sumter by force you will at once demand its evacuation, and if this is refused proceed, in such manner as you may determine, to reduce it. Answer.

The Powhatan's flying of false British colors at Pensacola has no bearing on Ft. Sumter. In keeping with the rules and practices of the era, the Confederate and Union navies both flew false flags during the Civil War.

The war had not yet started so far as the Powhatan knew at that point. Why would they be engaging in War subterfuge unless they thought they were at war?

Why would they think that prior to the fact?

538 posted on 05/19/2017 5:27:43 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 536 | View Replies ]


To: DiogenesLamp
There was no "siege" of Ft. Sumter until Confederate forces opened fire. The Union did not initiate hostilities -- the Confederacy did. The claim that Lincoln had given orders that showed hostile intent is quite beside the point: the Confederates fired first.

At Pensacola, the Powhatan flew a British flag as a way to confuse secessionists and avoid bloodshed. There was no illegality or violation of custom in doing so, and no adverse inference can fairly be lodged against the US Navy for doing so.

541 posted on 05/19/2017 7:17:35 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 538 | View Replies ]

To: DiogenesLamp; Rockingham
DiogenesLamp to Rockingham: "You say that, but I believe that is completely wrong.
Lincoln was intent on starting hostilities, and he had a separate mission attempting to start hostilities at Ft. Pickens, but it is not much discussed because the Sumter incident sucked up all the oxygen."

Totally false.
The absolute worst you can say about Lincoln in this regard is: he offered Jefferson Davis the opportunity to start Civil War, if Davis wanted it.

Of course, it may have been a little like offering candy to a child, how could a child resist?

But Lincoln himself was pledged and also ordered his military forces not to start it.

559 posted on 05/20/2017 11:16:56 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 538 | View Replies ]

To: DiogenesLamp; Rockingham; x; DoodleDawg
DiogenesLamp post #531: "The public information was that Lincoln had ordered an attack."

Rockingham post #536: "Lincoln did not order an attack on Charleston."

DiogenesLamp post #538: "He ordered an attack on anyone who would prevent them from landing supplies.
That meant attacking the Confederate force there that was siegeing Sumter."

First, in several posts now DiogenesLamp claims Lincoln's orders, allegedly to attack at Fort Sumter, were "public" knowledge.
In fact, there's no evidence for that.
What may have happened was Confederate spies inaccurately reported on rumors in Washington.
Those same spies had also reported Lincoln intended to abandon Fort Sumter without a fight.

Second, once again DiogenesLamp has slipped up and admitted what he was attempting to deny: Confederates were "sieging Sumter" before Union ships arrived.

658 posted on 05/23/2017 6:31:02 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 538 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson