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To: Simon Green
A shotgun would have been better. Racking rounds sends the fear of God into people. An ar-15 round could probably pierce the walls of a dozen trailers. Possibly hitting innocents.
2 posted on 04/20/2018 10:35:14 AM PDT by BBell (calm down and eat your sandwiches)
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To: BBell

An AR15 with a bump stock and green tip ammunition is even better.


5 posted on 04/20/2018 10:39:25 AM PDT by DarthVader ("The biggest misconception on Free Republic is that the Deep State is invulnerable")
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To: BBell
An ar-15 round could probably pierce the walls of a dozen trailers. Possibly hitting innocents

Why “High Powered” 5.56 NATO/.223 AR-15 Ammo is Safer For Home Defense (FBI overpenetration testing)

http://preparedgunowners.com/2016/07/14/why-high-powered-5-56-nato-223-ar-15-ammo-is-safer-for-home-defense-fbi-overpenetration-testing/

9 posted on 04/20/2018 10:46:04 AM PDT by Simon Green
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To: BBell

7 shot shotgun definately better against 7 attackers. Dumb ass. Did you read about this situation being a perfect example of the need for high capacity magazine? So 7 people are offensively attacking you and you think the racking sound of a shotgun is the “big scary response” needed. WOW. I would go with firepower with 7 on 2 tactics when I’m the 2 but all means you go with the loud but limited loader.


14 posted on 04/20/2018 10:53:01 AM PDT by wgmalabama (The government murdered Robert LaVoy Finicum - what makes you think you are not next?)
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To: BBell

AR round fragment better than other non-shotgun options like pistol-caliber carbines and even some pistols. Specialized rounds like the Hornady TAP round are basically varmint rounds with a cannelure, designed to disintegrate on quickly on impact.


16 posted on 04/20/2018 10:56:57 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: BBell

Racking the shotgun announces:

1. Exactly where you are.
2. That you either keep your arm unloaded or you just threw away one round.
3. That you weren’t serious and you didn’t feel threatened enough to open fire, an important legal element in many states.


17 posted on 04/20/2018 10:57:11 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: BBell

Racking a round is merely radar and makes it easier for the intruder to find you.

Unless you have a Benelli Semi-Auto filled with sabots...to literally cut em down...


27 posted on 04/20/2018 11:11:05 AM PDT by Vendome (I've Gotta Be Me https://youtu.be/wH-pk2vZG2M)
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To: BBell

If they’re inside your home, all questions & warnings are complete. They’ve deliberately, with consideration & effort, breached your social & physical & legal boundaries. There is no need to “warn” them (they know the risks), there is no reason to keep a chamber empty just so you can waste time “warning” someone by filling it (when you may already need that round chambered), they have likely already prepared to confront you so you’re “warning” them of what they’re ready for.

.223 / 5.56 is notoriously unstable, likely to start tumbling & lose energy fast when having struck the first object - it’s not going to “pierce the walls of a dozen trailers”. Overpenetration has been well-addressed for this caliber, and is proven better than most.

A major point of using a carbine is accuracy & maneuverability: increasing odds of hitting the intended target, and so reducing other casualties.

Shotguns, however, have: limited capacity (don’t miss!), deep penetration (for some ammo), and the very same (& debatable) “spread” people tout as improving hit odds also improve odds others will be hit.


44 posted on 04/20/2018 12:59:05 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (The Red Queen wasn't kidding.)
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To: BBell

Sir, sorry but the over-penetration belief is just not true- unless you have some unusual 556 ammo.

Fact is, the standard fodder of 55 grain FMJ from a carbine fragments into many pieces, perhaps two of which weigh more than 10 -15 grains. A soft shatters even more completely, a varmint round after all.

Even heavy 77/75 grain offerings are very good at coming apart after minor contact with stuff like drywall and frame construction.

I suppose the sound of a pump shotgun is awe-inspiring, but so would the very well known and unique sound of the bolt-carrier group of an AR closing a round into the chamber- but that is just theatrics.

it is very well known that buckshot loadings of #4 through 000 penetrate interior walls very well- and of course, one must aim carefully with either- at conversational distances, the 12 ga and 556 need to actually be pointed at and hit the center of something IoT work.

I suggest perusing the net and seeking facts regarding the 556 and 12 buck in home defense scenarios.

Granted, one solid hit with either should be a fight-stopper- both deliver upwards of 1300-1500 ft-lbs of either individual or combined projectile energy.

Google 556 wounds and you will be amazed- the little 556 really works.

The 556 carbine weighing in at 6 lbs , 7 loaded with a 30 rnd mag has virtually no recoil and follow-up is easy, compared to the recoil of the 6-7 lb 12 ga pump loaded with 4-7 2 3/4 in rounds.

Don’t get me wrong, I would pick up either if needed ( and have indeed), nor would I want to be hit with either.

Another given- the 556 carbine with dot optics is useful from 0- 200m, while the 12 ga loaded with buck is useful to 50 m..... You never know.

All stated, I carry a handgun starting with a “.4X” to get to my carbine.

Concluding, the guy who fired 30+ 556 rounds needs training.... both in marksmanship, tactics and fire discipline....


63 posted on 04/21/2018 2:42:05 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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