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"Canada is exporting to us the crack of marijuana." --JOHN WALTERS, White House drug czar
Full Text: COPYRIGHT 2004 Time, Inc. ^ | August 23, 2004 | Anita Hamilton

Posted on 12/22/2004 1:56:04 AM PST by Gorons

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To: Xenalyte

Did you hear about Jessica's original problem with "Chicken of the Sea"? That's what the SNL sketch is taking off on.


No. I just skimmed the article real quick. Not much there worth my time.


21 posted on 12/23/2004 8:40:00 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk

This article is a joke. Marijuana isn't more potent, it's about the same. In fact, 2% THC marijuana is good for one thing...a killer headache. In the olden days the study of potencies only had access to Mexican ditchweed(poor mexicans growing pot in whatever little piece of exposed dirt they could find) that crossed the border. Even today, this ditchweed is good for a headache.

Today they intercept more high-grade American, Canadian, and European pot. Legalization would solve so much. It'd eradicate gangs, save money, and it would atone for reefer madness...the early-to-mid 1900's campaign that basically said all marijuana users were evil mexicans who wanted to rape your wife, mother, and little sister...it's ridiculous.


22 posted on 12/23/2004 9:36:56 PM PST by GregW8705 (I wanna be sedated)
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To: Clemenza
Well, I've tried everything sourced from cannabis and, no, I have never become a dope fiend.


You've got to admit, at any strength it has a negative affect on ability to concentrate and short term memory. That's why I gave it up years ago.
23 posted on 12/23/2004 9:39:51 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: GregW8705
I agree with your arguments, but we both know that quite a few fellow conservatives would disagree. I personally don't care what people do for recreation. Having said that, I don't think we should have a free for all either. I think there are many drugs that should be regulated, but I'd rather see a junkie get his fix from a doctor or a med-tech than have him steal and kill to buy street junk. It's not a perfect solution, but I think it's a more viable one.
24 posted on 12/23/2004 9:46:32 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk
I think there are many drugs that should be regulated, but I'd rather see a junkie get his fix from a doctor or a med-tech than have him steal and kill to buy street junk. It's not a perfect solution, but I think it's a more viable one.

There is actually a positive correlation between the harshness of drug laws and the percentage of heroin addicts.

Iran has the highest rate of heroin addiction in the world and they've executed around 10,000 heroin traffickers over the last decade or so.

In 1996, Singapore had proportionally slightly more heroin addicts than the US. And Holland has a lower rate of heroin addiction than the US, using late 90's figures for both. These were the latest government figures I could find.

It does not mean that harsh laws cause higher rates of heroin addiction.

It means lenient laws don't necessarily lead to more of it.

25 posted on 12/23/2004 10:12:43 PM PST by Ken H
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To: IGBT
If we can drug test transportation workers coast to coast because of safety concerns why can't public school students/teachers be tested for health and safety in education/work place??

It's called the ACLU/NEA, and they won't stand for it.

26 posted on 12/23/2004 10:20:43 PM PST by concretebob (If you won't defend my liberty, who's gonna defend yours?)
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To: superskunk
I'm for personal psossesion of 4 plants or less than 1 pound, of cannabis. Anything more constitutes intent to distribute.
Get caught outside your property line with it, you pay a serious fine. 2nd time you go to jail.
Just let me grow it, like tomatos, and I'll be content.
27 posted on 12/23/2004 10:26:49 PM PST by concretebob (If you won't defend my liberty, who's gonna defend yours?)
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To: Ken H

Actually I agree. When prohibition was passed in this country, there was an explosion of alcoholism. I'd rather see the DEA eliminated or greatly downsized and spend the money on better things. The current system certainly isn't working that well.


28 posted on 12/23/2004 10:27:56 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: concretebob

Don't really care if you grow enough for your friends and family too. Keep it out of the hands of kids and I'm happy.

These days, about all I bother with is a couple of beers, but to each his own.


29 posted on 12/23/2004 10:30:47 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk

I'm with you.


30 posted on 12/23/2004 10:57:20 PM PST by concretebob (If you won't defend my liberty, who's gonna defend yours?)
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To: concretebob
It's what makes us conservatives. We don't feel the need to impose our will on everyone the way the liberals do. I always considered them hypocrites for being such burned out druggies, then years later pushing for stricter drug enforcement. Just about everything those atheist scum do offends me.
31 posted on 12/23/2004 11:20:58 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: superskunk

Yep. Haven't touched the stuff in 6 years.


32 posted on 12/24/2004 3:05:24 AM PST by Clemenza (Morford 2008: Not that there's anything wrong with it!)
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To: William Terrell
"Probation or not, over half of the space in federal prisons is wasted by cannabis offenders."

First, the space is not "wasted". These are scumbag drug traffickers and drug dealers. Good riddance to bad garbage. Second, the statistic is for all drug offenders, not just marijuana. Third, we have 2 million people in prison (state and federal) in the U.S. 77,000 of them are drug offenders in federal prison. Let's put things in perspective here, Chicken Little.

"I'd think it would be a lot more. Got a source?"

The federal budget is about $2 trillion. The federal WOD is about $20 billion (ie., 1%).

Under the 2003 WOD budget, a number of enforcement agencies were included. This skews the "supply/demand" budget split to 2/3 - 1/3. The 2004 WOD budget transfers some of the enforcement budget to other federal agencies, resulting in a "supply/demand" budget split of about 50-50.

This restructuring (detailed in the link) also reduces the ONDCP budget from $20 billion to $12 billion. The largest reduction, $5 billion, came from the removal of 10 accounts in the DOJ, the largest of which, $3 billion, was for the incarceration of federal prisoners.

33 posted on 12/24/2004 7:13:15 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: GregW8705
"Legalization would solve so much. It'd eradicate gangs, save money, and it would atone for reefer madness ..."

Pot legalization would not eradicate the gangs -- of all the money Americans spend on illegal recreational drugs, marijuana represents about 15%. That still leaves a huge illegal market for the gangs.

Save money? Not at the federal level. Some money would be saved at the state and local level in reduced incarceration costs. But I believe it would actually cost society money due to increased usage (health, accident, treatment, etc.).

Currently, marijuana usage is about 6% of the population over 12. It was as low as 4.7% in 1993. It was as high as 13% in 1979.

So we know that it can go pretty high even when it's illegal. Legalizing marijuana could result in use as high as 20%, half of that number under 21 years of age. Would that also increase the use of hard drugs? I would think so, especially since the gangs are now focused on nothing but.

Legalize marijuana to "atone for Reefer Madness"? Nice try.

Besides, the film has now achieved "cult" status, and is a favorite among teens. So look on the positive side.

34 posted on 12/24/2004 7:39:03 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: concretebob
"Just let me grow it, like tomatos, and I'll be content."

Not like those plants wouldn't attract every teen in a ten miles radius like bees to nectar.

35 posted on 12/24/2004 7:45:39 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
If all I have to worry about is teenagers, I can deal with that and I didn't say outside.
Besides, it doesn't grow in baggies. I'll bet you half the kids don't know what a plant looks like.
I've had friends who KNOW, walk into my garden, and not see it.
36 posted on 12/24/2004 7:52:29 AM PST by concretebob (If you won't defend my liberty, who's gonna defend yours?)
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To: superskunk
"When prohibition was passed in this country, there was an explosion of alcoholism."

Well, there was an explosion of drinking, yes.

Per Capita Consumption of Alcoholic Beverages (Gallons of Pure Alcohol) 1910-1929

But that only brought the consumption level back to what it was before Prohibition (actually lower).

There is no relationship to drugs. Drug use declined when we got serious about enforcing the Controlled Substances Act.

37 posted on 12/24/2004 8:02:19 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
But that only brought the consumption level back to what it was before Prohibition (actually lower).

There is no relationship to drugs. Drug use declined when we got serious about enforcing the Controlled Substances Act.

It's possible that my opinions are wrong. I'm just saying that the DEA seems a lot like the public schools - we keep dumping money into improving the situation and it just keeps getting worse. In my home county, Butler county PA, we're seeing something we've never seen before - kids addicted to heroin (I've heard as young as 13). I have a young cousin who nearly died from that garbage. It's got to stop and it's got to stop now! I'm open to any realistic option. If we make dealing on any level a capitol crime, fine! We need to do something different.
38 posted on 12/24/2004 8:14:12 AM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
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To: robertpaulsen
Currently, marijuana usage is about 6% of the population over 12. It was as low as 4.7% in 1993. It was as high as 13% in 1979.

So the decline started halfway through Jimmy Carter's term and continued falling until the WOD was elevated to cabinet level status. Since then, it's gone up. Plus the WOD has utterly failed on the supply side, assuming the goal is to reduce supply..

So we know that it can go pretty high even when it's illegal. Legalizing marijuana could result in use as high as 20%, half of that number under 21 years of age.

Not necessarily. The rates of mj use in the Netherlands is in the same ballpark as the US, maybe slightly lower.

Would that also increase the use of hard drugs? I would think so, especially since the gangs are now focused on nothing but.

Not necessarily. Using the latest government figures I could find (1999), the rate of heroin addiction in the Netherlands was about half that of the US.

39 posted on 12/24/2004 8:29:00 AM PST by Ken H
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To: concretebob
"I can deal with that and I didn't say outside."

You currently grow tomatoes inside? And if marijuana were legal to grow, just how many people would choose to grow it indoors? Besides you.

"I'll bet you half the kids don't know what a plant looks like."

Perhaps. Legalize the growing of marijuana and I'd bet that percentage would increase to about, oh, 100%.

If all I have to worry about is teenagers, I can deal with that ..."

Here's the problem. We'd all have to worry about the teenagers if marijuana were legalized for adult use in the home -- as they found out in Alaska. Teen use was double that of the lower 48.

Personally, I'm not willing to take the chance of teen drug use doubling in order to legalize marijuana so that some irresponsible, selfish, individualistic, immoral, hedonistic doper can smoke at home. Like they would restrict their usage to home.

They don't now.

40 posted on 12/24/2004 8:43:13 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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