Posted on 04/28/2005 12:03:24 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
Eph 5:5-7. For you can be quite sure that nobody who actually indulges in fornication or impurity or promiscuity--which is worshipping a false God--can inherit anything of the kingdom of God. Do not let anyone deceive you with empty arguments: it is for this loose living that God's anger comes down on those who rebel against him. Make sure that you are not included with them.
I think you are to be happy for their marriage, and to not try to preach anything that will make another more tempted to sin than they already are. One thing I do believe, it's one level to sin, it's a higher level to promote sin to others and encourage others to fall.
My friends who are out having sex aren't having fun. They think they are, but they'll admit when you press them that they're not really. I'm much happier than they are. I think I have a lot more fun, too.
Not having to deal with the dilemma of pregnancy, disease,etc. is a load off one's shoulders. Some people are so deceived about what constitutes 'fun'.
Or just not dealing with the emotional turmoil these people put themselves through. I know myself, I'm the sort of person who doesn't bond easily but when I do, well... I can't imagine having boyfriend after boyfriend, sleeping with who knows how many guys, and then trying to establish a real relationship with marriage.
Well where do people draw the line, Christians think they can do everything but have intercourse so is that fornication or not?
So let me ask you this where do you draw the line of fornication? Sexual intercourse only or anything sexual is fornication...
I think oral sex is fornication... some people think they can rationalize. Personally, I think if someone calls themselves a religiois christian and is also committing sexual sin they have a lot of issues and it's just them and God. Most people inherently know when they've crossed the line.
Clinton Christians, you mean?
What do you think *isn't* fornication?
Again with the generalizations... most of the people I know who are committed to chastity, understand that it's more than a single act, it's the whole lifestyle. I wouldn't date someone who I knew there was no chance of my marrying because that goes against my idea of true chastity. (Emotional closeness being just as important as physical).
You can tell you're not the woman in that relationship. Usually, after the ring is on the finger is when the intimate moments begin to diminish.
Clinton was married, otherwise you tell me if he was single would that be biblically fornicating?
"Clinton Christians" in the sense that "oral sex isn't sex."
Are you able to answer the other question?
Picked up for both of us....
I think you really should be seeking that answer from a motivation of what is best for your soul and that of your partner, not from a motivation of how much you think you can get away with. If you think you're OK with God, great. But stop trying to change the rules for those who think the answers are simpler and who want a ~higher~ standard.
I think this entire post had to do with Biblical Morality in the sense of Masturbation and Oral Sex which is not clearly spelled out biblically....
NO again it has to do with what the Bible has to say on sexual morality and fornication...
Oh - well, I'm no authority on that, and I am not sure the bible is going to explain it explicitly enough to draw that line for you... Personally, regarding fornication, I think it's hard to define in polite company, but you know it when you're in it. ;~D
My husband and I met online, here as a matter of fact, and we learned that you could curl each other's toes with both hands on the keyboard, thousands of miles apart. I don't know if it was a sin or not, but it felt like fornicating to me.
halius said: Because I try, with God's help, to follow His law and Christ's example, I make people not want to be Christians?
Reading this thread made me think and it made me sad.
Obeying God's commandments is HARD. It's not easy, it's difficult. In fact, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do without God's help. It's a narrow, hard road we travel, and it's a race that requires endurance. Paul said the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. And this is someone who WAS celibate.
To be obedient to God requires loving Him more than we love ourselves. It is out of love that we obey. We tend to do what brings us pleasure, even PERFECT humans did that (Adam, Eve). So it is impossible for imperfect humans to be obedient without help. But first we must ask. And keep asking. And be willing to work with God's spirit. Be willing to give up control. To throw our burdens on Him.
And that's difficult to do. We want to be in control. I want to say, it's MY body and if I want to have sex than I will! If I want to masturbate who am I hurting! But it's not MY body. It's a gift from God and I want to use this gift to bring further praise, honor and glory to the wonderful person who gave it to me. Even if I rejected God completely, I STILL wouldn't be in control! I'd just be a slave to sin, a slave to flesh, a slave to greed, to lust, to sickness, to whatever. Either a slave in Christ or a slave in sin, but we're not in control either way. I'd rather accept the help from the only one who truly, completely loves me.
We all fall short. We can't even help it. We mess up every single day. We can't obey the laws and never could and lovingly, God doesn't require that of us. Just that we love him, try and truly realize that everything we do reflects on Him and makes him feel some kind of way, either joyful or sad or angry or pleased. If you love someone, you don't want them to be hurt or disappointed or sad.
The world is fallen and it won't be saved. Most of the people who call themselves Christian ARE NOT. So when people say, "I see Christians doing this and doing that", if someone is living in an unrepentantly sinful fashion than they're NOT behaving as a Christian and we are exhorted to disassociate ourselves from them. Bad association spoils useful habits (1 Cor. 15:33). If I hung out with my former associates who live with men out of wedlock and have sex and children out of wedlock, and if I went to the clubs with these girls and stayed over their homes and gushed with them about their boyfriends...it would be much more difficult for me to remain chaste. It's hard enough as it is.
What saddens me is how low the standards are. All kids are gonna do it anyway? That's not true. I know a number of young people who didn't, in fact, many of the kids who I grew up with in my congregation were virgins until marriage. I am a virgin as is my sibling. My best friends are, even the one in his late thirties. My grandmother divorced my adulterous non-Christian grandfather when she was in her early thirties, and never had sex again until she died in her sixties, because she never marriaed again. It's not easy and it's not to say we don't fall short in other ways. I screw up every day but God's standards are my standards, so I can't excuse it when I fall short. It's why Christians are exhorted to be no part of the world.
Obedience is not without reward, and that's just another example of God's love. We're supposed to do the right thing anyway, but He BLESSES us when we do. If we pray to Him for His spirit to teach us and give us strength, then we start to display the fruitage of the spirit. Love, peace, joy, faith, kindness, self-control, loving patience, goodness and mildness (Gal. 5:16-25). Who wouldn't want to display those qualities? Godly joy that is with you even in the worst of times is a million times better than the temporary pleasure of a drunken one-night stand or a hit of ecstasy.
I'm not writing this post to put anyone down or preach at anyone. But to encourage people to study the Bible and to pray for God's spirit, and to live in a manner according to one's faith.
LOL..You met on FR? this can be a strange kind of place sometimes....Well good for you...frankly sometimes the build up before the actual act can be more stimulating than the end result so it is a complex issue...
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