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To: b_sharp

Evolution is built upon a supposition - that creation exists by natural causes. Once the supposition is begun, evos look to nature to prove it.

This is circular reasoning----get the drift?


621 posted on 12/17/2005 6:07:00 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121
Evolution is built upon a supposition - that creation exists by natural causes. Once the supposition is begun, evos look to nature to prove it.

This is circular reasoning----get the drift?



If we accept your reasoning:

Evolution Creation is built upon a supposition - that creation exists by natural supernatural causes. Once the supposition is begun, evos creos look to nature supernature to prove it.

This is circular reasoning----get the drift?



If you want to examine your logic in this, you might find that my revision is functionally the same as yours. The difference is, I would guess, that your belief supports one view, but not the other.
720 posted on 12/17/2005 6:47:24 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: eleni121
"Evolution is built upon a supposition - that creation exists by natural causes. Once the supposition is begun, evos look to nature to prove it.

"This is circular reasoning----get the drift?

Science assumes that it will be able to measure, analyze, and draw conclusions. The sciences of evolution are not trying to prove that anything is 'natural', they are simply trying to learn as much about our world as possible within the constraints the natural world provides. The only way you can state that science is begging the question is if you do not understand the methods and goals of science.

If you are really concerned with 'origins' I suggest you take your concerns to Cosmologists and the Chemists and Biochemists studying abiogenesis rather than biological scientists.

733 posted on 12/17/2005 6:56:10 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: eleni121
Evolution is built upon a supposition - that creation exists by natural causes. Once the supposition is begun, evos look to nature to prove it.

This is circular reasoning----get the drift?

Yeah, except it should read, "SCIENCE is built on a supposition...". The assumption that only natural causes are in play, for the restricted purpose of explaining and understanding natural processes, is common to ALL scientific theories. It is also EQUALLY common to all scientific theories. It is not one sinlge fraction of a degree more characteristic of evolution than of any other theory, law or principle.

Now, this may bother you; that science only considers natural cause. If so there's a solution for that, although a successful outcome is by no means guaranteed: Just develop a genuinely useful and successful theory that incorporates supernatural, non-natural, psychic, spiritualist (whatever) causes.

Science has never failed to accept a genuinely successful theory just because it violated what was then understood to be the nature of science. Instead the understanding of the nature of science was adjusted to accommodate the theory. This worked, for instance, for Newton's gravitation which appealed to an "occult" force that could act at a distance and transmit itself without physical impact between bodies.

What doesn't work, however, is whining. There are good reasons why scientists, even piously religious ones, think that science won't work with supernatural causes. (For instance, to be brief, if you can always invoke a miracle then any theory can always explain any result.) You have to DEMONSTRATE by example that supernatural science can work as science.

744 posted on 12/17/2005 7:07:30 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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