Posted on 01/03/2006 5:19:21 PM PST by Coleus
However the babies that don't make it were not knowingly killed by my or my wife's actions unlike IVF.
LOL -your violins seem to have become dissonant?
Thank You as well.
One final note, it is IVF (In Vitro Fertilization), not IFV.
>>
My, aren't we getting simple
If a normal woman has sex during her fertile time, an embryo is produced almost every time. >>
no, not necessarily, and there is no proof of this. There is only ONE moral code and Natural Law, that comes from God, not from human sinners, who tend to do the devil's work and make morality relative. If an embryo is created during the conjugal act in the sacrament of marriage and is passed, that is natural and in accordance with God's law.
Making a dozen or so babies in a petri dish KNOWING WELL that most of YOUR Children won't make it to see the light of day, only to have most of the embryos/beautiful children discarded and put on ice is barbaric.
Now please go and correct some more typos.
Your vulgarity and anti-Catholic rhetoric add nothing to your argument WHICH does not matter anyway to Catholics... You can disagree; however, try to disagree without the morally liberal methodology so common to places like DU...
A simple explanation may be that those posting the 'same' happen to be Catholics obedient to the Church and as such believing and expounding upon what the Church teaches.
Feel free to read a comprehensive overview here:
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Instruction on Respect for Human Life
http://www.rscbayarea.com/articles/frozen_embryo_faq.html
And how many of yours are frozen?
You call this moral and ethical. How so. How does one justify this? I'm willing to learn.
Why is the fertilization procedure in itself immoral? Doctors "create" multiple embryos at one time in order to increase the chances of success of implantation. Normally dozens of embryos are created and never used. These littlest human beings are then frozen or destroyed.
Does this Coleus have multiple personalities? 'Cause I seem to be getting responses from the same person, with different handles. >>>
Are you of sound mind?
Did it ever occur to you that others know that the IVF procedure is an abomination. That others live by God's moral and natural law who value children as gifts from God and not as a property or a mere commodity.
They know that it is wrong to create a dozen or so beautiful babies, have 3-4 implanted, knowing that most or all of the 4 implanted will be die and be disposed and that the others will be placed in cryogenics, in a gulag, never to see the light of day, for eternity or for use in the barbaric embryonic stem cell research.
The forgotten embryo: Fertility clinics must store or destroy the surplus http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513817/posts
Now that is truly frightening.
You created much more than a dozen embryos that wouldn't make it. Of course, you can claim ignorance (which you have in abundance) so I can't say you KNEW WELL it was happening.
No, and neither does the fact that thousands of people have seriously investigated capitalism and found it repugnant, too. Will you renounce capitalism because some people find it repugnant?
You created much more than a dozen embryos that wouldn't make it. >>
in a petri dish? Ha, that will be the day.
Your buddy seemed quite disturbed ...
In Vitro Fertilization
One reproductive technology which is clearly and unequivocally judged to be immoral is in vitro fertilization or IVF. Unfortunately, most people are do not know that IVF is immoral, and some have used it in attempting to have children. Children conceived through this procedure are children of God and are loved by their parents, as they should be. Like all children, regardless of the circumstances of their conception and birth, they should be loved, cherished and cared for.
The immorality of conceiving children through IVF can be difficult to understand and accept because the man and woman involved are usually married and trying to overcome a "medical" problem (infertility) in their marriage. Yet the procedure does violence to human dignity and to the marriage act and should be avoided. But why, exactly, is IVF immoral?
In vitro fertilization brings about new life in a petri dish. Children engendered through IVF are sometimes known as "test tube babies." Several eggs are aspirated from the woman's ovary after she has taken a fertility drug which causes a number of eggs to mature at the same time. Semen is collected from the man, usually through masturbation. The egg and sperm are ultimately joined in a glass dish, where conception takes place and the new life is allowed to develop for several days. In the simplest case, embryos are then transferred to the mother's womb in the hope that one will survive to term.
Obviously, IVF eliminates the marriage act as the means of achieving pregnancy, instead of helping it achieve this natural end. The new life is not engendered through an act of love between husband and wife, but by a laboratory procedure performed by doctors or technicians.
Husband and wife are merely sources for the "raw materials" of egg and sperm, which are later manipulated by a technician to cause the sperm to fertilize the egg. Not infrequently, "donor" eggs or sperm are used. This means that the genetic father or mother of the child could well be someone from outside the marriage. This can create a confusing situation for the child later, when he or she learns that one parent raising him or her is not actually the biological parent.
In fact, the identity of the "donor," whether of egg or sperm, may never be known, depriving the child of an awareness of his or her own lineage. This can mean a lack of knowledge of health problems or dispositions toward health problems which could be inherited. It could lead to half brothers and sisters marrying one another, because neither knew that the sperm which engendered their lives came from the same "donor."
But even if the egg and sperm come from husband and wife, serious moral problems arise. Invariably several embryos are brought into existence; only those which show the greatest promise of growing to term are implanted in the womb. The others are simply discarded or used for experiments. This is a terrible offense against human life. While a little baby may ultimately be born because of this procedure, other lives are usually snuffed out in the process.
IVF is also expensive, costing at least $10,000 per attempt. Over 90% of the embryos created perish at some point in the process. In a desire to hold down costs and enhance the odds of success, doctors sometimes implant five or more embryos in the mother's womb. This may result in more babies than a couple wants. In Canada, one woman gave birth to five children engendered by IVF. She had wanted only one, so she sued her doctor for "wrongful life," demanding that he pay for the cost of raising the four children she did not want.
To avoid the problems of carrying and rearing "too many" babies after several have been implanted, doctors sometimes engage in something euphemistically called "fetal reduction" or "selective reduction." Here they monitor the babies in utero to see if any have defects or are judged to be not as healthy as the others. Then they eliminate those "less desirable" babies by filling a syringe with potassium chloride, maneuvering the needle toward the "selected" baby in the womb with the aid of ultrasound, and then thrusting the needle into the baby's heart. The potassium chloride kills the baby within minutes, and he or she is expelled as a "miscarriage." If it cannot be determined that one baby is less healthy than the others, some doctors simply eliminate the baby or babies who are easiest to reach. Again we see the unspeakable diminishing of the value of human life which can arise from this procedure.
Not everyone who has had a child through IVF has used donor eggs or sperm, collected the sperm through masturbation, or killed "extra" unwanted babies in the course of the pregnancy. Yet there is still a moral problem with the procedure itself. Why?
Why IVF is Wrong
Human beings bear the image and likeness of God. They are to be reverenced as sacred. Never are they to be used as a means to an end, not even to satisfy the deepest wishes of an infertile couple. Husbands and wives "make love," they do not "make babies." They give expression to their love for one another, and a child may or may not be engendered by that act of love. The marital act is not a manufacturing process, and children are not products. Like the Son of God himself, we are the kind of beings who are "begotten, not made" and, therefore, of equal status and dignity with our parents.
In IVF, children are engendered through a technical process, subjected to "quality control," and eliminated if found "defective." In their very coming into being, these children are thoroughly subjected to the arbitrary choices of those bringing them into being. In the words of Donum Vitae: "The connection between in vitro fertilization and the voluntary destruction of human embryos occurs too often. This is significant: through these procedures, with apparently contrary purposes, life and death are subjected to the decision of man, who thus sets himself up as the giver of life and death by decree." The document speaks of "the right of every person to be conceived and to be born within marriage and from marriage." To be within and from marriage, conception should occur from the marriage act which by its nature is ordered toward loving openness to life, not from the manipulations of technicians.
The dehumanizing aspects of some of these procedures is evident in the very language associated with them. There is the "reproductive technology industry." Children are called the "products" of conception. Inherent in IVF is the treatment of children, in their very coming into being, as less than human beings.
Huh??? Where's that bunny-with-a-pancake-on-its-head image...
Hey Colitis, ever heard of google.com? Plagiarism is stealing and a sin!
http://www.usccb.org/prolife/programs/rlp/98rlphaa.htm
Read the thread, and try to keep up. I wasn't replying to you ... And do try to avoid stupid slurs on folks' screennames. They just make you look like an idiot.
I do have some questions for you: What happened to the other fertilized babies in your 3rd attempt?
When do you think life begins? At what stage does a human deserve protection?
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