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To: PatrickHenry
You probably will. ;)

I propose that the definition for faith be modified along the following lines:

the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation.

As a non-religious example, my marriage vows to my wife. We don't know we're going to stay together but we have faith that we can work out our problems and stay together.

4 posted on 01/31/2006 1:00:33 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%; PatrickHenry

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or reason

the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation.

I think the second is much more accurate.

27 posted on 01/31/2006 7:54:47 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: <1/1,000,000th%; SuziQ; PatrickHenry
" the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation."

Referring to the historical meaning and usage of the word faith and Webster's entry...(Collegiate is similar)

Faith
Noun

1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality".

2. Complete confidence in a person or plan etc; "he cherished the faith of a good woman"; "the doctor-patient relationship is based on trust".

3. Institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him".

4. Loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person; "keep the faith"; "they broke faith with their investors".

The word faith always implies strong conviction, trust and loyalty to some person. Loyalty to a person is why it is improper to use this as a scientific term. Science uses the scientific method, it does not refer to any individual, or their judgments, or decisions.

A Marine has faith in other Marines. He has empirical evidence for that belief. One can say they have faith that a roof won't collapse. They are actually referring to the person that engineered it, the one's that laid down the design specs, and the one's that reviewed the specs and final construction. You can't have faith in the roof itself. It's whatever it is and behave accordingly. If someone has faith in a rickety bridge, it's not the bridge they have faith in, the faith is in the person that makes the judgment.

I can't see using the term faith for any element of reality, other than a person. You can't have faith in reality; it just is. Science is knowledge and understanding of reality. Just as it makes no sense to have faith in reality; it makes no sense to have faith in science. You can only have faith in a person, regardless of the presence, or abscence of evidence though.

The US had faith in Hanson the spy. They had sufficient evidence in their own minds, that caused them to believe he was trustworthy. There was also clear evidence to me, that he was not.

32 posted on 01/31/2006 9:23:36 PM PST by spunkets
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