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Lucy: Clearcut Case of Evolutionist Fraud
Answers in Genesis ^ | 2003 | Dr. David Menton, Brown Univ.

Posted on 06/18/2006 7:59:34 AM PDT by tomzz

This little video was shown at the apologetics group at the McLean Bible Church last week and the effect on viewers was rather striking.

Lucy is the 40% more-or-less complete australopithicus skeleton which is commonly presented as a missing link of sorts, and the thought processes behind the manner in which reconstructions of lucy are presented indicates a mindset in which, at every juncture at which reality clashes with ideology, it is reality which simply gets tossed.

Lucy's actual remains did not included hands or feet and reconstructions are commonly presented with human or near-human hands and feet despite the fact that other skeletons of the same creature have hands and feet which are clearly those of an ape, with curved fingers for moving about in trees. Mary Leakey in fact had found clear tracks of human footprints in the same strata and location as Lucy's remains and the assumption is that at least one australopithicus MUST have had human feet.

Asked whether a better explanation would be that the tracks were simply produced by humans, Leakey and others replied that was impossible since the tracks were millions of years old.

The obvious explanation of course is that a human made the footprints and "Lucy" was simply that human's pet monkey.

The story actually gets better (much better) from there if you can believe that, with evolutionists claiming that a deer or other animal trampled "Lucy"'s hips and pelvis, breaking them into pieces, and that the pieces congealed by chances into the conformation of those of an ape, and deriving the true picture of Lucy's hips and pelvis by making a plaster cast, breaking it up with a saw, and then rearranging the pieces into a more human conformation.

For anybody willing to part with the twelve dollars, this little documentary offers an astonishing glimpse into the mindset of the evolution true believer.

David Menton earned a Ph.D. in cell biology from Brown University. He served as a biomedical research technician at Mayo Clinic and then as an associate professor of anatomy at Washington University School of Medicine (St Louis). For almost two decades he has been profiled in American Men and Women of Science—A Biographical Directory of Today’s Leaders in Physical, Biological and Related Sciences. Dr. Menton has lectured throughout the United States and Canada on the creation-evolution controversy.



TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: australopithicus; bloodbath; creationism; crevo; crevolist; documentary; evolution; fraud; intelligentdesign; lucy; moviereview; validpoints
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1 posted on 06/18/2006 7:59:35 AM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz

(Lucy's actual remains did not included hands or feet and reconstructions are commonly presented with human or near-human hands and feet despite the fact that other skeletons of the same creature have hands and feet which are clearly those of an ape)


LOL! LMAO! Crazy Evo's.


2 posted on 06/18/2006 8:11:37 AM PDT by A Troop 1-14 Cav (By the time you understand women, you are one.)
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To: A Troop 1-14 Cav

Thing is you can still breed humans and chimps. Otherwise how do we explain the Democrats in Congress!


3 posted on 06/18/2006 8:34:44 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: tomzz
The obvious explanation of course is that a human made the footprints and "Lucy" was simply that human's pet monkey.

I'd like to get confirmation on this from the source.

4 posted on 06/18/2006 1:33:43 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: tomzz

Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do.


5 posted on 06/18/2006 1:34:18 PM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

FYI


6 posted on 06/18/2006 1:40:42 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz; gobucks; mikeus_maximus; MeanWestTexan; JudyB1938; isaiah55version11_0; Elsie; LiteKeeper; ..
Evolutionists find:

Evolutionists see:

Any questions?

‘Lucy’ isn’t the ‘Missing Link’!

Did Lucy walk upright?

Lucy: walking tall—or wandering in circles?
7 posted on 06/18/2006 8:23:32 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (If you're proud to hold the American Flag, then the Flag is proud to be held by you.)
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ping for later


8 posted on 06/18/2006 8:36:42 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: tomzz

A gross defining characteristic of a hoaxer/evo: dishonesty.


9 posted on 06/18/2006 8:42:57 PM PDT by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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To: muawiyah
"Thing is you can still breed humans and chimps. Otherwise how do we explain the Democrats in Congress!"

Are you telling us that democrats have actually been crossbread with humans?

10 posted on 06/18/2006 8:58:09 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Evos don't seem to have much to say on this one. Think they've just missed it?


11 posted on 06/18/2006 9:21:26 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz

SPOTREP


12 posted on 06/18/2006 9:45:43 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: tomzz
Wouldn't presenting microscopic pics of tiny bone building cells and some stretchy organic particles that were discovered after scientists had chemically dissolved all minerals in the tyrannosaur bone fossil itself, without the proper size scale showing how incredibly small the items in the pics really are, also be considered fraud?

Especially if the person kept calling the organic material "meat", telling folks it was comparable to the steak meat or chops at the supermarket.

My fingernails are organic but I would hardly call them meat.

ScienceDaily here is a link that explains the "fresh meat found in a tyrannosaur femur" hoax, better than I ever could.

It explains that paleontologists did a chemical treatment on it and were surprised it didn't just dissolve the whole fragment. There are pics (black & white) with the size scale.

All those teensy tiny structures, cell and blood vessel patterns in that dino bone fragment are very similar to bone and blood cell structures found in modern day ostrich bones; Dr. Mary Schweitzer compared the two.

Guess the creationists/Iders forgot to mention that little fact in this story, as it supports the theory that some birds evolved from dinosaurs.

13 posted on 06/18/2006 10:33:52 PM PDT by Deadshot Drifter (Lib Wackos have the Center for Science in the Public Interest. CRIDers have the Discovery Institute)
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To: tomzz
Asked whether a better explanation would be that the tracks were simply produced by humans, Leakey and others replied that was impossible since the tracks were millions of years old.

It is not proper to speak in absolute terms when dealing with circumstantial evidence as it pertains to unobserved history. With any theory there may be another to explain the data just as well, if not better.

For better or for worse, Creationists do not have the benefit of fraudulently creating organized matter that performs specific functions. The existence of such simply concurs with what is written in the biblical texts, which text I am inclined to treat with more respect in terms of authority and accuracy than a raft of books based upon fanciful thought, no matter how well "educated."

14 posted on 06/19/2006 4:35:15 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: tomzz
Clearcut Case of Evolutionist Fraud

NO!!!!

I'm SHOCKED!

15 posted on 06/19/2006 4:44:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: tomzz
Evos don't seem to have much to say on this one. Think they've just missed it?

That's because they're all over HERE; wondering about us!!!


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1651573/posts?page=42#42
16 posted on 06/19/2006 4:48:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: tomzz
Talk about blind faith....

This is all an accident of entropy????

You believe in accidental creation all you want, it doesn't change FACTS!

Look around you and believe this is accidental.

17 posted on 06/19/2006 4:55:11 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (I'd rather be carrying a shotgun with Dick, than riding shotgun with a Kennedyl!)
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To: rawcatslyentist
This is all an accident of entropy????

You believe in accidental creation all you want, it doesn't change FACTS!

Look around you and believe this is accidental.

Sadly some people do. If there is no intelligence behind it, there is no other explanation.

18 posted on 06/19/2006 5:14:02 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Deadshot Drifter

We've been over that before. Yes, some individuals forgot to borrow the cereal box phrase "enlarged to show texture" on the images. It's still a sensational find, and it should not have been there. No right-thinking scientist would have done what she did.

AiG's Dr. Menton already addressed the argument about bird evolution/dinosaur evolution with the medullary bones, and has a more in-depth response forthcoming.

And by the way, you are committing a tu quo que logical fallacy. You do not answer the arguments put forth in this thread, but merely snatch another instance from another thread and basically say "oh yeah, well CREATIONISTS can be dishonest TOOOOOO!"


19 posted on 06/19/2006 7:22:58 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (If you're proud to hold the American Flag, then the Flag is proud to be held by you.)
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To: editor-surveyor

A failed expeiment.


20 posted on 06/19/2006 9:41:32 AM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: tomzz
Evos don't seem to have much to say on this one. Think they've just missed it?

No, its too nonsensical to worry about. Its from answersingenesis.org so that's to be expected. Here is another great piece of scientific research from the same website:


Conclusions

Typical textbooks show the following progression: an apelike knuckle-walking primate, followed by forms which are progressively larger, progressively more bipedal, and progressively more intelligent—all culminating in us modern humans. As we have seen, the scientific evidence shows no such thing.

The relevant evidence clearly shows that Homo sapiens sensu lato is a separate and distinct entity from the other hominids. No overall evolutionary progression is to be found. Adam and Eve, and not the australopiths/habilines, are our actual ancestors. As pointed out by other creationists [e.g., Lubenow9], Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, and Homo neanderthalensis can best be understood as racial variants of modern man—all descended from Adam and Eve, and most likely arising after the separation of people groups after Babel.

The non-transitions in ‘human evolution’—on evolutionists’ terms, by John Woodmorappe

I wouldn't want to be associated with that kind of "science" -- would you?

21 posted on 06/19/2006 9:42:52 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: SunkenCiv

Did you see this?


22 posted on 06/19/2006 11:52:26 AM PDT by Anne of DC (RUMMY FAN BIG BIG TIME!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
A. afarensis, a multi-specimen fossil species.

The Wikipedia article.

A common feature of AiG/ICR-type "misstatements" is the pretense that the "Lucy" specimen stands alone as the sole basis for all inferences. This confusion probably arises because you can fool more suckers that way.

23 posted on 06/19/2006 12:22:48 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: VadeRetro

How much does that little honey of a video sell for?

...just a little addition to your weekly tithe, that's all it takes. You, too, can debunk well established science!

Suckers, indeed.


24 posted on 06/19/2006 6:14:44 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: Anne of DC

Thanks.


25 posted on 06/19/2006 6:25:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Monday, June 19, 2006.)
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To: tomzz
Evos don't seem to have much to say on this one. Think they've just missed it?

How many times have you posted this lie before just to start a flame war, Bat-boy?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!

26 posted on 06/19/2006 6:38:16 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: 2nsdammit
How much does that little honey of a video sell for?

It could be worth every penny -- if it's free.

27 posted on 06/19/2006 7:00:42 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: VadeRetro
A. afarensis, a multi-specimen fossil species.

Amazing what you can do with plaster of paris; you can even get Algore to look human. How's that movie of his doing? I here it has all sorts of reliable evidence in it, just like Evolution. Than again, Evo's are gullible.

28 posted on 06/19/2006 7:20:55 PM PDT by celmak
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To: celmak
A. afarensis, a multi-specimen fossil species.

Than again, Evo's are gullible.

But there are some "evo's" out there -- we generally call them, scientists -- who have actually seen the fossils. Unlike you, they have some evidence on which to base their opinions.

29 posted on 06/19/2006 7:52:42 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Coyoteman

"I wouldn't want to be associated with that kind of "science" -- would you?"

I've decided it is a sickness. Anyone who can truly believe in ZAP!, or POOF!, or better yet, "The Jeanie and Major Nelson" story, can't be reasoned with. I'll tell you honestly, I'd rather live eternity in hell than spend 5 minutes in heaven with these fools. Judgement time.


30 posted on 06/19/2006 8:12:18 PM PDT by SaveUS
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To: Coyoteman
Unlike you, they have some evidence on which to base their opinions.

What evidence do you have that we lack? Unlike you, we take what supports the Bible in Evolution, that being "the measurable change in the heritable traits of a population over successive generations," and that, "natural selection is the process by which individual organisms with favorable traits are more likely to survive and reproduce." No problem here, it is the imaginings of neo-Darwinist like yourself that believes that there is evidence of a kind of animal developing to another another kind (like apes to man) that gives the theory a bad name. Do you appreciate the way Nazi's and Communist love neo-Darwinism?

31 posted on 06/19/2006 8:48:51 PM PDT by celmak
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To: celmak
Do you appreciate the way Nazi's and Communist love neo-Darwinism?

You are letting your religious zeal overwhelm your common sense and common courtesy.

Good night.

32 posted on 06/19/2006 8:53:59 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Coyoteman
You are letting your religious zeal overwhelm your common sense and common courtesy.

Sorry to hurt your feelings (as so many of you go by them), but let's face facts, Nazis, Fascists & Communists are to neo-Darwinism as Christians are to the Bible. Your comeback is so creative (couldn't help it, LOL).

Sleep tight.

33 posted on 06/19/2006 9:25:33 PM PDT by celmak
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To: SaveUS
Anyone who can truly believe in ZAP!, or POOF!, or better yet, "The Jeanie and Major Nelson" story, can't be reasoned with.

Yeh, better that we came from "green goo" than to be accountable to a "Creator!"

34 posted on 06/19/2006 9:29:09 PM PDT by celmak
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To: SaveUS
I'll tell you honestly, I'd rather live eternity in hell than spend 5 minutes in heaven with these fools.

Careful what you wish for.......

35 posted on 06/19/2006 10:16:37 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz

"Careful what you wish for......."

No, I'm serious. There could be no such thing as "heaven" if I found myself anywhere near a simpleton who couldn't understand simple math.


36 posted on 06/20/2006 9:41:52 AM PDT by SaveUS
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To: SaveUS

I hear ya. If I have to spend the afterlife with with these types, hell might be a blessing.


37 posted on 06/20/2006 9:43:47 AM PDT by Mazda3Fan
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To: celmak

"Than again, Evo's are gullible."

But we aren't the one's who believe God stopped time to give an army a daylight advantage to kill all of their enemies. No, it takes a Creationist to really understand gullible. In fact, let's discuss Gullible and fraud. Jim Bakker? How many complete imbeciles gave most of their earnings to this goob? Jimmy Swaggart? How many simple minded holy rollers were slapping money on this guy before he admitted he was nailing a prostitute and trying to talk her into getting her daughter in on the action? Jim Jones? What a Christian! Yeah boy, looks like the Creationists have ALL of the heavy hitters.


38 posted on 06/20/2006 9:49:35 AM PDT by SaveUS
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To: SaveUS
No, I'm serious. There could be no such thing as "heaven" if I found myself anywhere near a simpleton who couldn't understand simple math.

That would certainly include evolutionists...

39 posted on 06/20/2006 10:04:33 AM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz

You aren't giving truthful information. If you remember, YOU are the same person who posted the real live Tyranosaur Meat post. BWWHAHA. The only way any Creationist theories can possibly be correct is if everything was ZAPPED into existence in its present state. This is not only impossible, but quite ridiculous. Like I say, send me to hell, I'd get kicked out of heaven for laughing in people's faces anyway.


40 posted on 06/20/2006 11:29:20 AM PDT by SaveUS
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To: tomzz

The Creationist argument that evolution requires life to just randomly assemble is the single most dishonest, IMO. The theory claims no such thing. If you believe that is what the theory requires, you are either misled, or deliberately ignorant, or stunningly dishonest.

Read up on what the theory actually says. If you do, and you do so open-mindedly, you just may learn something of the theory you are quick to dismiss out of ignorance.


41 posted on 06/20/2006 11:36:22 AM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: Mazda3Fan

"I hear ya. If I have to spend the afterlife with with these types, hell might be a blessing."

This kind of CRAP is destroying the Republican Party. People start thinking that they can either vote for a bedwetting liar, or they can vote for fundamentalists who resemble the type of crazy fundamentalist behavior they see in Islam. People need to stand up for truth and save conservatism for the people who have a grip on reality. I guess we can start a chapter of YR in hell. Sure, it will be hot, but at least we won't spend eternity watching magic tricks.


42 posted on 06/20/2006 11:37:49 AM PDT by SaveUS
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To: SaveUS
You aren't giving truthful information. If you remember, YOU are the same person who posted the real live Tyranosaur Meat post. BWWHAHA...

You mean this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285683/

Sorry, but that, to me at least, is meat. If that makes me a liar in the eyes of evo-losers, so be it.

43 posted on 06/20/2006 11:43:39 AM PDT by tomzz
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To: tomzz

That's not meat Goob. Tyranosaurs are 65 million years old. No meat. That is probably a 3mm piece of bone that has been stained with iodine, or something that color. Not meat. And this is what I am talking about. Send me straight to hell. There is not a competing hypothesis to Evolution besides ZAP! I choose to think that ZAP! theorists are absolute imbeciles. Tyranosaur meat is a good example. LOL But, tell me, what did the DNA say? Or, let me guess, it was meat, but didn't have DNA. Genius, just pure genius.


44 posted on 06/20/2006 12:02:19 PM PDT by SaveUS
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To: SaveUS
Yeah boy, looks like the Creationists have ALL of the heavy hitters.

Well gosh, your right! They don't compare to the likes of angelic Evo's of say Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol pot, Mussolini, etc. LOL!!!

45 posted on 06/20/2006 12:37:38 PM PDT by celmak
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To: tomzz

ping!


46 posted on 06/20/2006 12:38:47 PM PDT by celmak
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To: SaveUS

"This kind of CRAP is destroying the Republican Party. People start thinking that they can either vote for a bedwetting liar, or they can vote for fundamentalists who resemble the type of crazy fundamentalist behavior they see in Islam. People need to stand up for truth and save conservatism for the people who have a grip on reality. I guess we can start a chapter of YR in hell. Sure, it will be hot, but at least we won't spend eternity watching magic tricks."

My feeling exactly. Fundamentalists scare me, Christian and non Christian alike. I wish we had someone like Goldwater or Reagan to run again.


47 posted on 06/20/2006 1:08:32 PM PDT by Mazda3Fan
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To: celmak

How many times have we debunked THIS pack of lies and misdirection?!

You YECers ought to try to get some new lines; the old ones are beginning to sound like Shatner singing Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds....


48 posted on 06/20/2006 2:29:34 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: celmak

In case you forgot:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~vaderetro/#hitler


49 posted on 06/20/2006 2:31:15 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: 2nsdammit

Oh, he didn't forget. Morton's Demon kept the information from impinging upon his brain in the first place.


50 posted on 06/20/2006 2:33:27 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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