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Why Confederates are taken for granted! (Like conservatives today?)
Nolan Chart ^ | March 16, 2012 | Mark Vogl

Posted on 03/21/2012 7:21:07 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The Confederates of the Southern movement are like the conservatives of the Republican Party, the leaders believe they have no choice!

The parallels occurring in America between the 2012 election year, what is occurring in America as a nation and in the South, and the events of 150 years ago are startling.

While most Americans have some knowledge of the GOP Primary, few have any idea of the Sesquicentennial (the 150th Anniversary of the Civil War) and the events occurring in the Southern movement. And yet, what is occurring is like mirror reflections of one another.

Let's start with what most people know about, the GOP primary. Mitt Romney is the sweetheart of the northeast Republicans. He is super rich, someone keenly involved in the international economy. He is a social liberal, the father of Romney Care, the proto type of Obama Care. He is not Christian, or at least his faith, Mormonism, is not Christian and this suits the northeast elite who revile the Christian faith. God has no place at the governing table. Heavily Catholic in the northeast, it is also heavily liberal. Abortion starts and ends there, along with feminism.

There is a strong Jewish constituency in the northeast, and though divided on many issues, many Jews see America as an extension of Israel. Not the other way around... American foreign policy revolves around Israel. We are in two wars, and threatening a third for Israel's security not our own.

Former Governor of a blue, dark blue state, Mitt Romney is keenly aware of all the above.

But Romney can't win a majority of Republican votes anywhere. He has spent maybe twenty million dollars and the best he can do is garner about 35% of the vote in any state. Why? Because the conservative core of the Party rejects him. It’s instinctual. It’s not Rush, or Hannity. They have no effect on this. Neither does Beck, a Mormon who I would bet is committed to Romney. Beck has backed away recently, but his fangs have already shown.

So if the conservative base will not support Romney in the Primaries how is it that the GOP elite think Romney can beat Obama? ( Maybe they don't, but that's for a different article. ) Because the Republican elite, the Neo Cons, the Karl Roves, the Bush's, et. el figure the conservatives have nowhere else to go. If Romney is the nominee, if he is forced on the party, they will have no choice but support him. Some conservatives may stay home, but the Republican elite just can't believe enough of the conservative base would stay home, or vote for Obama to give the Democrats the win. So conservatives...once again, as you have time and again, you will have to accept the lesser of two evils. You know like McCain and Bob Dole, this is the best we can do. Suck it up! ( an old Army expression.)

For most of us conservatives we know the story. Its burned in our political memories.

Well, the parallel is in the South. For most of the nation the Sesquicentennial doesn't mean much. Many Americans ancestors arrived after the war. Italians, central Europeans, Greeks, and almost all the Latino's have no direct connection to the war, or the division of the nation. In fact, most of these people have no connection to the founding of the nation. They came for material wealth, not liberty and freedom. In their mind, government is supposed to provide. The Tenth Amendment, what's that?

But in the South, where there is a tie to Robert E. Lee, the Confederacy, and southern nationalism, the Sesquicentennial is more than a minor occurrence. If you have ever seen the movie "Sweet Home Alabama" it accurately portrays what occurs in the South every year! The Sesquicentennial is NOT the only time reenactments occur, it’s just when the biggest ones do. A special effort is made.

Recent work at Texas A & M on genealogical formula's indicates that between 50 and 80 million Americans have blood that traces back to a Southern ancestor. That would be one sixth to one fourth of all Americans. Pretty sizeable crew.

But the Sesquicentennial is occurring during the Obama Presidency and there seems to be a real effort, though hidden and underground, to reduce the Southern Pride. Example; the Museum of the Confederacy (M.o.C.) Located in the heart of Richmond, the capitol of the Olde Confederacy, the Museum occupies prized ground that surrounding hospitals or other businesses want. The pressure has been on them a long time to get out. So, this year, the M.o.C. opens its first extension. Many of us believe the opening of the extensions will allow the Museum to leave Richmond eventually.

But the selection for the first opening is evidence that Yankee interests have invested the museum.

Is the first opening in the lovely Shenandoah where Jackson beat three Union armies in one campaign? No. Oh I know, it’s off Interstate 95 at Chancellorsville, the site of Lee's greatest victory! NO. OK, maybe up closer to Washington, D.C. on the Manassas battlefield where the Confederacy won two major battles? Nope. So where?

Appomattox, the place where General Lee surrendered the Army of Northern Virginia. You are kidding! For a Southerner, only Andersonville could be a worse location!

Nope, it's Appomattox. A location more than an hour from any interstate! A location not heavily visited. Great plan don't you think? Take the musuem out of Richmond and put it out in the middle of nowhere?

But the subtle attack on the Confederacy gets better. No Confederate flags will fly on poles outside the Museum of the Confederacy! Not one.

But hey, you Southerners dig into your pockets and shell out some money for the M.o.C.

The fight in the South goes well beyond this.

At THE CITADEL, in Charleston, South Carolina, where the cadets of this school fired the first shots of the war, this school played Dixie as its fight song at football games in the 70's. Confederate naval ensigns flew proudly on the RV's and cars outside the stadium at the cookouts before the game. Crimson red dominated the area surrounding the stadium

Crimson red still dominates, but it’s not the Confederate battle flag. And Dixie, well you don't hear that one anymore. THE CITADEL is not the only culprit. The University of Texas at Arlington, which used to be Arlington State College, and was known as the Rebels where Dixie was also played, is now the U.T.A. Mavericks. The effort to erase Southern history proceeds unabated. The heritage organizations responsible for defending the Cause, overwhelmed or apathetic shrink in inactivity. Oh yes, every once in awhile you will hear about a Court case. But with a potential base of 50 - 80 million Americans you would think they could make more than a whisper.

Where Gettysburg in Pennsylvania nets three hundred million in tourist monies every year, employing 6,000 people, battlefields in the South are hidden. When you drive into a Southern state go to their Visitor's center and look through the brochures for Maps about the Civil War. Probably won't find them. They are there but you have to ask at the counter. The north can prosper from the war, but the South...nope.

Groups like the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy treat Southern patriots like the GOP treats their conservative core. You have nowhere else to go so suck it up!

Ok, so why are you writing this article? Well Republicans remember you thought the conservatives would have no choice? If there is a parallel between the South and the GOP you better rethink that.

In the South, since the heritage organizations would not fight for the South, new groups have spontaneously arisen, and you know what. Much of the activists in these groups are members of the heritage organizations who are tired of inactivity and defeat without a fight. They are in the streets, and they call themselves Flaggers. They reject the passivity and leadership of the heritage organizations. They are causing more pressure on the enemies of the South, and getting more attention then anyone can believe. They are only a handful, but in a South tired of being kicked they are growing.

Well, the same could happen in November at the ballot box.

Sarah Palin is still with us. A candidacy by her would end Romney, nominee or not.

History does repeat itself...but this time the history is simultaneous. Patriotism is not dead. Individuals willing to fight for what they think is right, and who are tired of sorry leadership are on the move. Will it snowball? Let's watch.

KEYWORDS: confederacy; elites; palin; romney; theyweredemocrats
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To: All

I had realtives on both sides and they all fought in the Trans Mississippi West and at the battle of Prairie Grove, against each other. Great family stories and I’ve managed to get records of my Confederate Great-great grandpa.

21 posted on 03/21/2012 9:14:37 PM PDT by navymom1
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To: iowamark

“Yes, the slavemasters were the worst kind of statists because they wanted to use the brute force of government to enforce human slavery.”

Evidently you have your own personal definition of ‘statist’ to suit your argument.

So, are you consistent enough to condemn George Washington as a statist? Two years before his death he tried to recover his slaves, Oney Judge and Hercules, who had run away while Washington was at the President’s House in Philadelphia.

“All of the Founding Fathers, including George Washington, believed the Union to be perpetual. “

Of course Founding Fathers such as Patrick Henry, George Mason, and Richard Henry Lee and the rest of the Anti Federalists didn’t believe any such thing. Their argument against ratification and consolidated government warned that it would destroy state sovereignty and lead to the destruction of freedom. And nothing in the Constitution states that the union is perpetual.

“BTW, the term “State’s Rights” was not much used until the segregation controversy of the 1950’s”

Which is a comment without merit since the philosophy of State’s Rights goes go back to the founding generation. The Virginia and Kentucky Resolves of 1798 penned by Madison and Jefferson are classic arguments in favor of state’s rights. The Nullification/ Tariff of Abominations controversy of 1832 was based in state’s rights. And John Calhoun’s defense of states rights beginning in 1840 played a major role in leading to secession. Claiming that the idea of State’s Rights wasn’t significant until 1950... you need to study more.

22 posted on 03/21/2012 9:56:57 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: lovecraft

I’m an American. Not a “Northerner’’ or a “Yankee’’. I’m an American. What are you?

23 posted on 03/21/2012 11:38:29 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’ll tell you what 2nd. I bloody sick and tired of “Rebs’’, ‘’Yankees’’ “Southerners’’ and “Northerners ‘’, I’m bloody sick and f**King tired of “Bonnie Blue,’’ “Dixie’’ and the bloody “Battle Hymn of the Republic’’ too!. I’ve been mixing it up here with Johnny Reb wanna-bes living in their parents basements and their love of the bloody’’ Stars and Bars’’ and to Hell with Old Glory. I’ve had my life threatened on Civil War threads here, I’ve been cussed and done my own share of cussing, Lord forgive me and I say ENOUGH!! And you know something? THEY”RE NOT MY ENEMY!! OBAMA IS!! The f**king war is over! One hundred and fifty years already, it’s OVER! Who really won, huh? Who won? We’re all in the same boat now, aren’t we? This little douche bag in The White House is going to have us ALL in chains and he’s laughing his ass off that we’re still at each others throats over this. The Johnny Reb wanna-be’s call me a ‘’socialist Lincoln butt-boy’’. An “Obama-lover’’ as if I voted or would EVER have voted for the little Marxist s.o.b! I HATE HIM!! Do we want war between the States again? OKay, fine. Only this time lets not march at each other North and South, but lets march North and South TOGETHER and head straight for DC, as AMERICANS AND THROW THE LITTLE BASTARD OUT!!! Sorry 2nd. This is nothing to do with you. Just had to get this off my chest. Been a long day for me and not a good one. Probably shouldn’t have said this but there it is.

24 posted on 03/22/2012 12:01:04 AM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: lovecraft
The war was foght over economics and power...just like every other war.

True enough.

Of course, the South started the war as a pre-emptive strike against what it saw as a future existential threat to $3B worth of property, somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the value of all property in the South, including land, houses, etc.

What would we do today if someone threatened that kind of economic disruption to us? For purposes of comparison, the recent economic downturn resulted in a loss of property value of around 10%.

The power issue over which the war was fought was slaveowners' ultimate power over their "property." Slavery is at its root and core the ultimate antithesis of American values.

That this ultimate power was held by individuals rather than by the state as such is irrelevant. State power was, of course, required and used to ensure that the slaveowners retained this power.

Humans were never meant to have such power over other humans. The vast majority of us are incapable of exercising it wisely and fairly, and none of us has the moral right to do so. The moral principle by which we oppose expansion of federal power is exactly the same one that makes slavery repugnant to any real American.

The man who defines his own right to freedom in terms of denying that same freedom to others has no right to the proud name of American.

As a Southerner, you have to fight half the people here on FR over CW stuff.

I was born in MO, which was one of the Confederate states, or at least the Confederacy said it was. The state fought its own internal civil war, as well as a border war with KS during the larger war. I have ancestors who fought for the South, and others who fought for the Union.

Liberals would love nothing more than to tar all conservatives with support for the Confederacy and all its racist baggage. Racism was endemic in the whole country at the time, to be sure, but only the Confederacy proclaimed it to be its Cornerstone.

As long as Jim Rob allows, I will respond on such threads in such a way that no honest person reading the thread will be able to come away saying that all conservatives are Confed sympathizers.

As Grant said, Confederates fought with enormous bravery and honor. Unfortunately, the cause for which they fought was one of the worst in history.

25 posted on 03/22/2012 1:21:56 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Lowell1775
The South should have freed the slaves and THEN declared independence as Longstreet says in Killer Angels.

Which was impossible for the rebels after they adopted their constitution.

Article I Section 9(4) - No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

In other words, slavery can never be abolished. Not by the confederate government, not by the individual states.

This constitution was adopted on March 11, 1861. On February 19, 1861 Alexander II abolished serfdom in the Russian Empire - not, I might note, a bastion of progress in the 19th Century. Someone was going in the wrong direction, and it wasn't the Russians.

26 posted on 03/22/2012 3:31:53 AM PDT by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: rockrr

Protection of NE industry by tariff which was retaliated by European tariff on agricultural products.

Money talks. Did then too.

27 posted on 03/22/2012 4:47:07 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Sherman Logan
What would we do today if someone threatened that kind of economic disruption to us?

Like when re-elected the Commie Quisling residing at 1600 Penn. Ave. by Executive Order "nationalised" the Oil Industry? Yep, it was about money & property (horrible definition)

28 posted on 03/22/2012 4:55:30 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Fiji Hill
In 2007, Dixie College in St. George, Utah changed its name from the Rebels to the Red Storm and discontinued the use of the Confederate flag.

In 2007 Dixie College in St. George, Utah applied for State University status as part of an expansion effort which includes a campus in..Hurricane Utah.

What conservative principle would you cite that prevents them from changing their team name to the Red Storm?

29 posted on 03/22/2012 5:34:50 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Pelham

Nice. Disagree with the neo-confeds and you’re labeled (or libeled - your pick) “hard core South hater” and further slandered with insinuations of being a marxist. All of which is the same as saying that you support the treasonous actions of the insurrectionists therefore you must be getting your information from NAMBLA.

So, are you a charter member?

30 posted on 03/22/2012 6:26:21 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Texas Fossil

Tariffs were cited by the seceding states, but subordinate or attendant to slavery. And with the south dominating both Congress and the White House for most of the years preceding the Civil War the best that could be said of it (or the worst against it) was that this was all part of the give & take between states and regions of the country and to say that tariffs were responsible for the insurrection would be tantamount to saying that they rebelled because they didn’t like the drapes.

Slavery, especially in the context of expansion into the territories was at the heart of the souths reason to rebel.

31 posted on 03/22/2012 6:34:46 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: mac_truck
What conservative principle would you cite that prevents them from changing their team name to the Red Storm?"

What's conservative about a Red Storm?

32 posted on 03/22/2012 6:58:30 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: Fiji Hill
In other words, when asked a serious question relating to which conservative principles buttress about your complaint about the college's decision to change its team reach for a box of crayons.

I thought at least you could have launched into a soliloquy about tradition and long times gone but not forgotten.

Thanks for playing anyway.

33 posted on 03/22/2012 7:46:01 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
What conservative principle would you cite that prevents them from changing their team name to the Red Storm?

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that that they should have been prevented from changing their name.

I'm too busy to re-fight the War of Southern Independence with you. If you're happy with political correctness, then so be it.

34 posted on 03/22/2012 11:44:55 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; rockrr
The north can prosper from the war, but the South...nope.

Sounds like that's their choice. Either the war was too painful a memory, or Southerners don't want to be typecast as Jubilation T. Cornpone Confederates.

And it makes sense, doesn't it? If you've got climate, new roads, low taxes, and less expensive housing, are you really going to want to identify your state with our bloodiest war?

But I suspect Pennsylvania presents Gettysburg as just one of many historical and scenic areas. Virginia does the same thing. Push Williamsburg, and people who have other historical interests will visit them as well.

One thing this guy doesn't mention, though. It's not 1890 or 1930 any more, not a question of the poor South and the arrogant rich Yankees. Some Southerners who harp on past poverty are pretty quick to put down Northern cities and states that they've outstripped economically.

35 posted on 03/22/2012 2:56:08 PM PDT by x
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To: x

Fortunately there are fewer LCL “Fergit, Hell!” types with each successive generation.

36 posted on 03/22/2012 5:45:27 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Cheburashka

Howdy Cheburashka,

Re-read Mr. Longstreet’s fictional sequence of the slaves THEN declare independence.

Then for kicks, read the book I suggested....The 11 Nations of North America....and the few others it mentions as well like Albion’s Seed.

The slave masters of the deep south were just one of three “nations” that seceded in 1860/1. Each national culture(the Tidewater Elite, parts of the Appalachians, and the Deep Southern) each seceded for its own reasons. Only the slave masters for slavery.

My mothers family in WV fought for the Reb’s purely because they hated meddling Yankees and still do. My father’s Unionist family in WV hid runaway slaves and smuggled in English manufacture from Canada via their hardware business to beat the tariffs.

The families lived 7 miles apart. There are a million similar stories.

Both sides were right and both were wrong. 600,000 died and we are all still struggling with the results.

Histories, like people, are never simple.

Za Rodinu ee svaboda!

37 posted on 03/22/2012 6:01:39 PM PDT by Lowell1775
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To: Lowell1775
Re-read Mr. Longstreet’s fictional sequence of the slaves THEN declare independence.

The key word being fictional, as in no chance of it happening. If they freed the slaves before independence there would be no point to independence, certainly not for the slaveholders, who would be bankrupt and no longer an economic factor. The slaveholders had no interest in freeing the slaves, they wanted to expand slavery into the territories, they dreamed of annexing Mexico and the Caribbean to add to slavery.

In any case the confederate constitution was specifically crafted to make the abolition of slavery impossible.

38 posted on 03/22/2012 7:18:29 PM PDT by Cheburashka (It's legal to be out at night in spacesuits, even carrying a rag dolly. Cops hauled us in anyway.)
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To: rockrr

NAMBLA? That must be a group you have on your mind for you to bring it up out of the blue like that. It fits you.

As for “hard core South haters” I didn’t mention any names. But the hit dog howls.

39 posted on 03/22/2012 7:55:38 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: Pelham
But the hit dog howls.

Exactly what I thought when you brought up marxists. The subject fits you perfectly.

40 posted on 03/22/2012 9:01:13 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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