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Why Confederates are taken for granted! (Like conservatives today?)
Nolan Chart ^ | March 16, 2012 | Mark Vogl

Posted on 03/21/2012 7:21:07 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: Pelham; iowamark
Pelham: "Of course Founding Fathers such as Patrick Henry, George Mason, and Richard Henry Lee and the rest of the Anti Federalists didn’t believe any such thing.
Their argument against ratification and consolidated government warned that it would destroy state sovereignty and lead to the destruction of freedom. "

By definition, "Founding Fathers" were those who wrote and then voted to ratify the new Constitution.
Those who voted against the Constitution were not Founding Fathers.

They were instead, as their political name accurately describes: "anti-Federalists".

Anti-Federalists had their say, they lost the vote, and a new "more perfect Union" was ratified to replace the old "perpetual" Articles of Confederation.

41 posted on 03/23/2012 7:12:24 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

“By definition, “Founding Fathers” were those who wrote and then voted to ratify the new Constitution.
Those who voted against the Constitution were not Founding Fathers.”

Oh? So what are you, the world’s authority on the subject?

Well, sadly you’re not. In fact it’s evident you’re not even much of a student of the subject.

Here’s a definition a bit more impartial than your self-serving attempt at ‘begging the question’, a logical fallacy attractive to sloppy thinkers; note the use of “or” in the following definition, and if you don’t know why “or” is significant find someone to explain it to you:

“The Founding Fathers of the United States of America were political leaders and statesmen who participated in the American Revolution by creating the United States Declaration of Independence, taking part in the American Revolutionary War, establishing the United States Constitution, or by some other key contribution. “

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States

In that article is a list of Founding Fathers. And, surprise surprise, the list includes George Mason, Patrick Henry, and Richard Henry Lee.

Now run along and find some thread where they like to indulge in make-believe, your material will at least fit in there.


42 posted on 03/23/2012 9:39:18 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: rockrr

Fits me perfectly? Hardly, I don’t subscribe to the Marx and Engel’s interpretation of the American Civil War.

I brought up Marx and Engels because they wrote extensively on the American Civil War, and their account is significant because it is virtually identical to the interpretation of Civil War history that many South-haters use today.

It’s an interesting question where South-haters get their interpretation. Maybe they stumble upon it all by themselves. More likely they absorb Marx and Engels as it filters through other historians. It’s not like the American Historical Association has had a shortage of marxists. Eric Foner being a classic example of one who writes on the Civil War.


43 posted on 03/23/2012 10:23:08 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Sorry, but the Confederacy was the greatest act of treason in the history of the United States. Taking up arms against the federal government is the very essence of treason, and there's nothing noble about it if you lose.

The United States would have been far better served by holding every surviving Confederate officer accountable in the federal courts or military tribunals in the states of the rebellion, with punishment imposed according to the standards of the time.

The mistake of Reconstruction was in giving “The Lost Cause” any seeds or fertile soil in which to sprout. We'd be a far different and better nation now if the traitors had been dealt with properly.

44 posted on 03/24/2012 1:19:50 AM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: El Kabong1
El Kabong1
Since Feb 20, 2012

Up yours troll, start crap somewhere else jerk.

45 posted on 03/24/2012 2:04:19 AM PDT by The Cajun (Palin, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Newt......Nuff said.)
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To: The Cajun

Not to mention, one of its (three) posts claims Obama was born in Hawaii.

Right.


46 posted on 03/24/2012 2:10:54 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network ("The door is open" PALIN 2012)
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To: kalee

For later


47 posted on 03/24/2012 2:34:28 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: El Kabong1; mojitojoe

Could this be FR’s favorite retread? Anti-birther and hates the Confederacy... Made 3 comments so far only.


48 posted on 03/24/2012 10:00:13 AM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: El Kabong1

We would be a far better nation if the Confederacy had kicked the ever loving sh*t out of the union. How’s this hopey changey thing working for you?


49 posted on 03/24/2012 10:21:26 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: The Cajun

Retread? The zotted Non-Sequitur aka zotted Drennan Whyte aka zotted Kstater aka zotted SOJOCO????


50 posted on 03/24/2012 10:33:42 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: El Kabong1

FR will be a far better place when you are dealt with according to the standards of FR. I see lighting in your future.


51 posted on 03/24/2012 10:40:54 AM PDT by beandog (Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand)
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To: mac_truck

It seems only natural that a school called Dixie College would call itself the Rebels. You seem to find that name objectionable. Why?


52 posted on 03/24/2012 3:38:18 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: Cheburashka

You are obviously a very well read man. I don’t dispute anything you have written. Accept I am not a Southern apologist. I do not need lectured on the facts of slavery, the CSA constitution, or the economic value of slave chattel. There are no converts to make or hostile’s to humble in me.

Feel vindicated. Thanks for the practice.

Freeing the slaves first is a rhetorical construct to illustrate that all the good that could have come from the war was lost because of slavery.

Had an assembly of states brought Washington DC to heel over the punitive anti-sectional tariffs and affirmed the ultimate natural right of self determination, we would not now face an overwhelmingly large Federal government hostile to liberty.

And because of the CW, this same Federal government has the precedent to freely use force against its own people.

The tiny slave owning elite of the cotton south, even though they lost the war and are now long dead and judged, screwed this country royal.

As a consequence, to use one of your phrases Cheburashka, and not a fictional Mr. Longstreet’s, it is we as freemen who “.....are on the wrong side of history.”

Those flipping evil slavers and that darn CSA Constitution.


53 posted on 03/24/2012 5:53:22 PM PDT by Lowell1775
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To: beandog

I don’t care for president Obama and didn’t vote for him during his election. I do think we have a better chance of replacing him by focusing on the economy and likely further rationing of healthcare, rather than by chasing a story about his birth status that might prove equally detrimental to someone we may support in the future.


54 posted on 03/24/2012 8:32:06 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: mojitojoe

Were that the case, we would have at least two separate nations in the space now occupied by our United States.

Armed insurrection against the government is always treason. It’s only successful revolutionaries who get to avoid that label, and that’s not what happened to the CSA.


55 posted on 03/24/2012 8:32:18 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I made no such claim, nor do I support Obama. I do believe we would be more successful in limiting him to one term in office by focusing on topics such as Obamacare and our struggling economy, rather than carrying on a doomed effort to attack his eligibility by birth.

We don’t have different goals, but it appears we will have to disagree on the best way to achieve them.


56 posted on 03/24/2012 8:42:41 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: beandog

Not sure what you mean by “lighting in your future,” but FR is a conservative forum. A true conservative would never endorse armed treason against their own government. That’s where you and I must part ways.


57 posted on 03/24/2012 8:44:01 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: El Kabong1

He/she probably meant “Lightning” in your future - a reference to banning people suspected of being trolls or retreads. There are some forks here who are downright incontinent about silencing dissenting opinion.


58 posted on 03/24/2012 8:51:23 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr

Thanks.


59 posted on 03/24/2012 9:04:49 PM PDT by El Kabong1 (The Confederacy was nothing but treason writ large)
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To: El Kabong1

“Armed insurrection against the government is always treason.”

That’s what King George III said about George Washington and the American rebels of 1776.


60 posted on 03/24/2012 11:08:56 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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