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Pentagonís big budget F-35 fighter Ďcanít turn, canít climb, canít runí
Reuters ^ | July 14, 2014 | David Axe

Posted on 07/15/2014 9:06:15 PM PDT by Rabin

The U.S. military has grounded all its new F-35 Joint Strike Fighters following an incident on June 23, when one of the high-tech warplanes caught fire on the runway of a Florida air base. The no-fly order — which affects at least 50 F-35s at training and test bases in Florida, Arizona, California and Maryland.

F-35 is on track to become by far the military’s most numerous warplane. It was designed to replace almost all current fighters in the Air Force and Marine Corps and complement the Navy’s existing F/A-18s.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: boondoggle; f35; fighter; jointstrike; pos; wasteofmoney
Chicken Little Alert.

R.

1 posted on 07/15/2014 9:06:15 PM PDT by Rabin
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To: Rabin

Something has to be wrong with this picture, I mean they already have a truly superior manned fighter in the F22... What the hell are they doing?


2 posted on 07/15/2014 9:08:09 PM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: aardwolf46

Redistributing the wealth. Follow the funding for proof.


3 posted on 07/15/2014 9:09:20 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
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To: Rabin

Chicken Little Alert


Yeah, it is.

The JSF meets it’s performance bogeys as spelled out in the JSF specifications.
Those specifications do not reflect an aircraft that ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

The F-35 does exactly what it was intended to do and does it well.


4 posted on 07/15/2014 9:14:28 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: aardwolf46

Reminds me of the time old Adoph tried to turn the Me 262, a bomber killing jet fighter into a fighter bomber—it was not designed for. They tried to make the F-35 a one of a kind—do all ship. Better to buy the Su—35 from Russia.


5 posted on 07/15/2014 9:17:09 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*onward! Ride to the sound of the guns!)
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To: Rabin

Pratt & Whitney should be fired.


6 posted on 07/15/2014 9:17:21 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Rabin

I guess they shouldn’t have canceled the F-22.


7 posted on 07/15/2014 9:20:33 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: aardwolf46
Something has to be wrong with this picture, I mean they already have a truly superior manned fighter in the F22... What the hell are they doing?

The slightly conspiracy-theory-ish reasoning I ascribe it to is that the F-22 was too good at its role: air superiority.
A crap-basket like the F-35, designed to do everything (and therefore not capable of excelling in any particular role), on the other hand would always require more investment to "make it better". — IOW, the support on the F-35 would be guaranteed if any number of them are put in service.

Compare and contrast with the M-16 and how much has been spent on "improving" it.

8 posted on 07/15/2014 9:24:40 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Rabin

It underperforms in every fighter measure compared to our current fighter, and in every potential adversary. Its obese, suffers from low thrust, and high wing loads.

Even its defenders don’t pretend its a dog fighting hot rod. They simply point out that its electronics and fire control, and integration make dogfighting pointless.
Essentially claiming that those things will always win in any air combat encounter.

But if that was the case, a B-2 with the same missiles could defeat any enemy force.

Facts are stubborn things, it cannot outrun, outclimb, or out turn a Suhkoi, an F-15, an F-16, or an F-15.


9 posted on 07/15/2014 9:32:37 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

“Facts are stubborn things, it cannot outrun, outclimb, or out turn a Suhkoi, an F-15, an F-16, or an F-15.”

Just wondering - do you mean F 14 or F 18? You used F 15 twice.


10 posted on 07/15/2014 9:38:32 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: Rabin

I’ve got an old book on my shelves explaining why the F-15 should be cancelled along with the F-16. I keep it to remember how full of dog poop many of these writers are.


11 posted on 07/15/2014 9:41:02 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: MichaelCorleone

I meant 14. I was ticking off the Islamic Air Forces. Turkey, Paki, Saudi, Egypt, etc,,, many very bad people fly our machines.
Don’t know of any enemies we sold 18s to, but who knows?


12 posted on 07/15/2014 9:41:47 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: MichaelCorleone

Anything can outrun an F-18. They are horribly slow.


13 posted on 07/15/2014 9:41:51 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: DesertRhino

Do Kuwait and Malaysia count as possible enemies?


14 posted on 07/15/2014 9:43:47 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: aardwolf46

The F-22 is pretty much exclusively an air-superiority fighter. High and fast. The F-35 is *supposed* to do the rest of the roles, the ones the F-22 isn’t good at, like CAS, carrier, fighter-bomber, etc.


15 posted on 07/15/2014 9:44:46 PM PDT by Little Pig
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To: MichaelCorleone
You used F 15 twice.

He likes F 15s.

16 posted on 07/15/2014 9:55:47 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: rdcbn

And what is that intention specifically? Sit on the runway and catch fire?

This thing is going to be the biggest boondoggle for our troops since the French tried to build a machine gun.

I know what you are saying is correct but I cannot help but wonder although one of these things will be able to out fight 5 Chink fighters, will it be able to out fight 100?


17 posted on 07/15/2014 10:04:12 PM PDT by biff (WAS)
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To: GeronL

Are they islamic?


18 posted on 07/15/2014 10:40:49 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: Axenolith

You are asking if Kuwait is Islamic? Malaysia is 61-62% Islamic. The crescent is on their flag.


19 posted on 07/15/2014 10:46:15 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Mr Rogers

I’ve got an old book on my shelves explaining why the F-15 should be cancelled along with the F-16. I keep it to remember how full of dog poop many of these writers are.


I think I may have the same book from the 70’s. It also devotes 3 chapters to just how much of a piece of s**t and waste of money the A-10 was and why it too should be cancelled.

In retrospect the F-15, F16 and A-10 were the three best combat aircraft investments the United States has ever made. A reasonably strong argument could be made to to put an updated A-10 back into production if we didn’t already have so many in storage. New wings are in production by Boeing for the A-10 to keep it flying until 2040

FWIW, the comparative specs on the A-10, F-35 and FA-18 are

A-10 F-35 FA-18 Super Hornet

Empty Weight (lb) 25,000 29,300 32,100

Weapons Load (lb) 16000 18000 17,5000

Max Weight (lb) 50,000 70,000 66,000

Max speed 450 its M 1.6+ M 1.8


20 posted on 07/15/2014 10:47:44 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: Rabin

I have a general military question about pilot training. If one is trained mainly in one aspect of flying, say air superiority, would he be as well trained and responsive in other areas, like first strike.

I’m asking this question along the lines of, if a plane can do everything, whether a well trained pilot can do all things well as well?

That’s not to say that a well-trained pilot can’t do everything a pilot is supposed to do, but like any job, if you specialize in a specific area it will generally hurt you in other areas.

Another example would be accounting. There are general accountants, who can pretty much do everything. However, if you sent him into an audit position, he probably wouldn’t be as proficient as an auditor as somebody who has been an auditor for thirty years.


21 posted on 07/15/2014 10:50:33 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: GeronL

It was a rhetorical question/answer to your question of “do you count them as potential enemies”.

You’re answer was essentially “yes”...


22 posted on 07/15/2014 10:51:22 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: Axenolith

Arggggg... I’ve butchered a contraction.


23 posted on 07/15/2014 11:21:19 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: Rabin

The biggest mistake since the TFX program, and no amount of spin or Rah Rah will change that. It’s an expensive piece of ****.


24 posted on 07/16/2014 12:17:44 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: DesertRhino
Essentially claiming that those things will always win in any air combat encounter.

I seem to recall the same sort of things being said at the beginning of the Viet Nam war. The F4 Phantom was a fighter designed without a gun.

The DC brainiacs were wrong then... How much smarter are they now?

Mark

25 posted on 07/16/2014 12:43:16 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: aardwolf46

The F-35 was never intended as an air superiority fighter. Its role is primarily strike/CAS, and unlike many previous aircraft in this role, its stealth allows it to do things that no other plane in this role could do before. Its stealth capabilities also render the superior manoeuvrability of other fighter aircraft a moot point in most cases. I’d love to see how it compares to a Eurofighter in the air superiority role.


26 posted on 07/16/2014 2:52:14 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Rabin

everything i’ve heard is that the F-22 was a superior aircraft... when you remove the sabotage board courtesy of china (and the progressives enabling them)

0failure mothballed it in favor of the F-35 ... which, by all accounts, isn’t very good

meanwhile, the left has insured the chinese received the plans for the F-22... and they’ve been cranking those out, minus the sabotage ofc, for a few years

treason is being committed in so many areas, people barely notice it thru the desensitized haze


27 posted on 07/16/2014 4:50:27 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: sten
The Government bureaucrats have learned that as long the sheep get plenty of coverage of their favorite celebrity , their favorite sports team, their favorite soap opera, their EBT Cards work, their obamaphones work, they get their freebies from the Government[food, rent, gas, courtesy of the ETB Card] alcohol and other dope, they will remain calm, serene, and pacified until slaughter day.
28 posted on 07/16/2014 5:06:36 AM PDT by sport
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To: Jonty30

A fighter pilot can do anything that a bomber pilot, passenger/cargo plane pilot can do, but will just be bored while doing it.

But a chopper pilot or bush plane pilot, that’s a different thing altogether, I think.


29 posted on 07/16/2014 2:09:08 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

~Its role is primarily strike/CAS, and unlike many previous aircraft in this role, its stealth allows it to do things that no other plane in this role could do before~

CAS? Imagine this thing supporting troops at low altitude and meets some sanddigger with a 50 cal or 23mm cannon. I would like to see how it’s stealth or other extraordinary capabilities would be any helpful to survive encounter.


30 posted on 08/09/2014 6:45:54 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Rabin

F-111 for the 21st century!


31 posted on 08/09/2014 6:52:03 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (You all can go to hell, I'm going to Texas.)
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To: smokingfrog; All
Pratt & Whitney should be fired.

No this is not what you should be mad at. The engineering brethren will fix the issues, I know them well.

You should be pissed @ DOD / United Technologies for bringing TURKEY in as a partner on the Engine. For the love of G-d that Country has gone off the rails and they are still a partner on this?

Fire Turkey's sorry arse and share nothing with them. Nothing....

32 posted on 08/09/2014 6:57:38 PM PDT by taildragger (Not my Circus, Not my Monkey ( Boy does that apply to DC...))
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To: Jonty30

After fighter training of a young pilot, he or she is then trained on specific aircraft and its operational envelop and techniques as they are assigned to wings that use that aircraft.

Separate training on special simulators and classrooms.


33 posted on 08/09/2014 7:03:59 PM PDT by KC Burke (Gowdy for Supreme Court)
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To: wetphoenix

Who needs cannons when you drop a load of brimstones from a safe distance?


34 posted on 08/11/2014 3:09:22 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Throwing brimstones from a safe distance is not a CAS mission.


35 posted on 08/11/2014 3:28:27 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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