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To: Fester Chugabrew
Do you really think "universal gravitation" is as speculative as evolution?

I do.

On what do you base your belief that the force that prevents the moon from flying off into space is the same force that makes apples fall to the ground?

I'll tell you what I base my belief on: Newton's Universal Gravitation is simple enough for me to understand, and the numbers (as measured by others whom I trust) work out. Ah, but wait a second. If I look carefully enough at the data, I'll find that the numbers don't work out, at least not for that simple theory. Go to enough decimal places, and they actually rule it out: orbits precess at a different rate than predicted. Fortunately, there's a different theory--General Relativity. I don't understand that theory nearly as well, but I'm told (by other people I trust) that the numbers work out significantly better. (OK, I did work through an example or two, but it was hard.) But it's not intuitively obvious why that should be the case, and furthermore I don't believe that it's the final theory in any case. (It lacks a property called "renormalizability", thus we don't understand its quantum properties in the least.)

Evolution, on the other hand, makes instant intuitive sense. The data are very incomplete, even non-existent in some cases, but where we have data they fit the model brilliantly. We have an understanding of the basic mechanisms by which it occurs. So while gravity wins on data, evolution wins on understandability and elementarity. I call it a draw.

80 posted on 12/11/2002 2:23:00 PM PST by Physicist
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To: Physicist
"On what do you base your belief that the force that prevents the moon from flying off into space is the same force that makes apples fall to the ground?"

I can only surmise these forces are one in the same, and that by my simple observation. I would not be so arrogant as to claim they are absolutely identical forces.

. . . but I'm told (by other people I trust). . .

Amazing how, in the end, faith makes all the difference. The "facts" as represented WRT Universal Gravitation may one day be disproven, yet our textbooks - with all the unanswered questions WRT evolution - present it as if no questions can be asked. That's plain dishonest.

If indeed it is a matter of degrees when it comes to credibility of theories, on a scale of 1 to 10, evolution ranks a 0. "Universal Gravitation" as we know it maybe a 5. Creation out of NOTHING in Six Days or less, 11.

Your reply is appreciated, likewise your dedication to the pursuit of knowledge. I hope one day, as knowledge increases, the evidence of Contant Divine Intervention makes itself known more apparently to you. I know these things by faith, but you may one day know them by sense, and you are more sensible than me. I am just a simple fool.

97 posted on 12/11/2002 6:54:33 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Physicist
"I call it a draw".

I call it a draw too. That is, they have to draw all the missing links between species because they don't have an actual body or skeleton of one. They have to hypothesize what it's suppose to look like, based on what they THINK it ate, how they THINK it walked. They don't even have 1/100 of a skeleton of one. They can't even be 100% sure that the pieces of fossilized bones are from the same animal. That's why their ideas always keep changing. Creation never changes. "God created the Heavens & the Earth." He created all life, "Each after it's own kind."

1,558 posted on 12/30/2002 7:11:24 PM PST by webber
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To: Physicist
Evolution, on the other hand, makes instant intuitive sense.

For a fool it does.

3,299 posted on 01/06/2003 2:16:32 PM PST by SwordofTruth
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