Posted on 03/04/2003 2:34:57 AM PST by sarcasm
OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.
But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.
"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.
"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."
Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."
A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.
The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.
Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.
In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.
"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."
Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.
"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.
"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."
Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.
"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"
McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.
Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."
"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.
Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.
"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.
"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."
"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.
One dumb broad.
"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)
"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
In the hearts of non-Muslims is a disease, and Allah has increased their disease, and grievous is the penalty they will incur, because they are false. (Koran 2:8-10)
Just click on either of the following links and a new window will open, taking you to a web site containing the complete text of Islam's terrorist bible translated into English by Muslims:
Illbay apparently can't tell the difference. It's the same sort of curious blindness that leads one to assert that unless a legislator publically condones homosexual behavior, he does not and cannot properly represent his constituents who engage in homosexual behavior.
But a good legislator can and will fully and effectively represent a broad range of people without surrendering or compromising his own moral and religious beliefs and standards. Under our system of government, this can be done.
Boy those Jews sure love stoning people.
When's the last time this has happened in Israel?
Now when is the last time a peace loving molsem has killed a Jew or Christian?
See the difference?
I hope you do.
However, that's beside the point. Unless we are going to consider a limitation on religious plurality--the SUBSTANCE of the "establishment" clause of the First Amendment regardless of what some here have said about it--we are going to have to realize that at the very least respect is going to have to be given in situations like this.
You're right. But at the same time, to respect does not mean to "condone" or to "approve."
All that was needed here was respect. It was not the time for elected representatives to express their personal prejudices. As private citizens they are entitled to those prejudices, but not to exhibit them as PUBLIC servants.
So Americans who practice the Muslim religion are "enemies" of this country? Are you in favor of building the camps now?
Muslims seem to have a little trouble comprehending this particular verse in their "holy" Koran!
No, Kevin, quite the OPPOSITE. I am saying that when you represent your consitutency you don't pick and choose which constitutents you will respect and which you won't.
Homosexuality is not a religion. Homosexuality doesn't teach a laudable moral code which, despite all the uninformed bigotry that is frequently exhibitted here, Islam does.
I have no particular use for the Muslim religion personally, but I DO have a use for the principles of religious plurality that I believe makes our nation superior to ALL OTHERS ON EARTH. I do not ever want to see us stoop to the level of the Muslim nations, or even of historic Europe in its disregard for matters of conscience.
One thing that has been made abundantly clear as we have begun rolling up al-Qa'ida: These people aren't very religious (KSM has been an eye-opening case in point). Murderers very rarely are.
It is unfair to continue to cast this whole struggle as a religious one. That makes us no better than the demagogues among the radical "Islamists".
In the end, this was disgraceful behavior on the part of these Republicans. I would have expected something idiotic like this from the Democrat Left, but not from our people. I am ashamed of them.
One reason it hasn't is that Israel is not a very religious country. The majority of Israelis are agnostics who see Judaism as a culture that is based on a quaint, historic mythology that made a convenient basis for a code of morality.
There ARE religious zealots in Israel, and they DO tend to be somewhat outrageous in their pronouncements, like the followers of Meir Kehane.
I saw an interesting tidbit about the religious "Far right" the other day on the Discovery Channel. It told the story of Gordon Kahl, the man in North Dakota who in the late 70s and early 80s came to represent the anti-Semitic Christian Identity movement that made inroads in the agricultural midwest at the height of the family farm crisis.
This was one bad dude who didn't care who he killed, and who blamed Jewish bankers for all the ills of the "Christian" world.
There are nuts and fruitcakes aplenty among every religion. I refuse to tar all religious people with that brush because of the extremists.
So it goes. I understood the reason for his hatred of Christ, but I also knew how misguided he was.
Sadly, Isalm is being run by the fruitcakes....
....and has been for over a thousand years.
Islam is based on conquering the world by the sword.
Allah has brought nothing but death and destruction.
Islam, the religion of the seventh century.
In the US, we can express our displeasure by demonstrating or speaking out. These pols have done nothing but exercise that right that so many have died for. I find that quite American, not bigoted.
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