2 lawmakers spurn Muslim's prayer - Republicans step off House floor

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | March 4, 2003 | ANGELA GALLOWAY

[sarcasm]

OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.

But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.

"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.

"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."

Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."

A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.

The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.

Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.

In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.

"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."

Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.

"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.

"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."

Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.

"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"

McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.

Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."

"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.

Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.

"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."

[LowOiL]

I guess my opinion that they should resign is because they were showing disrespect for their elected office. When you are an elected official, there are often times when you have to put aside personal beliefs, and stand in that office. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be in the office.

BS. An elected person needs to stand up for the ideas of the people who elected him. These two fine members did just that. To hear Lpers whine about "Republican in Name only" (Rinos) and then tear into them when they do as elected to makes me sick.

[Illbay]

If I'm not mistaken, no religious expression was squelched.

Again, "principles" not "rules." These people were not simply private citizens; they were elected officials. The things they do, in that capacity, have significance beyond the mere expression of personal opinion.

Wreckless actions like this won't go unpunished, is my guess. Watch and see if I'm right.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

I don't know where Gig Harbor, or East Wenatchee are...but I'm thinking of moving there now.

[Calpernia]

>>>You can retain your integrity without showing blatant disrespect. These people are NOT private citizens when they stand in the legislative chamber.


Which I will say again, they represent CIVIL LAW NOT SHARIAH. In the EYES of the MUSLIM, civil law does NOT apply to them. Therefore, they did not disrespect anyone THEY represent.

Are you a republican?

[Illbay]

Then would you care to explain to me why you make a statement like you did. What does it matter that Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive, dictatorial states on the face of the earth? Since when do we allow THEM to determine what WE do?

[MoGalahad]

<>A little quiet respect and tolerance is all that's asked in both situations.<>

Two points:
(1) What respect are Christians or even Americans accorded in any Islamic nation? Respect is a two way street.

(2) This nation was founded by people who believed in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. The god of the Muslims is called Allah. He is NOT Adonai Jehovah. From the writings and lifestyles inspired by this god Allah, I would have to say that he is either a chief demon or Lucifer himself. If you want to pay respect to Lucifer and his minions, that is your prerogative, but don't presume to moralize to those of us who don't.

[EternalVigilance]

Wreckless actions like this won't go unpunished, is my guess. Watch and see if I'm right.

Since you seem to be so hot for 'disciplining' these legislators for violating your tender sensibilities, I would suggest that if 'Republican leaders' are foolish enough to do so, they will feel more heat than they ever imagined could be directed their way. They may even get freeped.

[f.Christian]

That is because we are ALL His children, and He loves ALL of us despite our errors.


237 posted on 03/04/2003 1:13 PM PST by Illbay

[Illbay]

...you, in the name of political correctness, demand the resignation of two fine Republican legislators for exercising their freedom of conscience.

If they walked out because a black minister offered a prayer, and they do not believe that is proper because blacks are inferior, that too is "freedom of conscience."

Is it then political correctness to observe that such a wreckless act should NOT go unremarked?

[f.Christian]

That's what the idiots on FR don't seem to get, and never have.


226 posted on 03/04/2003 1:04 PM PST by Illbay

[brownie]

Again, "principles" not "rules." These people were not simply private citizens; they were elected officials. The things they do, in that capacity, have significance beyond the mere expression of personal opinion.

Thus, you were for Clinton being impeached for his conduct while President?

[EternalVigilance]

Nice strawman, Illbay.

But yes, they would have the right to walk out for such a racist, stupid reason...and yes, the GOP leadership would have the right to punish them for it. They would also in all likelihood lose their seats in the next election...and rightfully so.

But I gaurantee you that none of these legislators are going to experience anything of the kind.

You greatly misjudge the intelligence and the mood of the American people if you think so.

[DontMessWithMyCountry]

You, dear Sir, are absolutely correct. What an irony that a Jew needs to teach a Christian who his own God is ;-)

[newgeezer]

Then would you care to explain to me why you make a statement like you did.

To recap,

1. My response to the original post pointed out that the evidence he quoted for alleged Muslim tolerance proved nothing of the sort.
2. To save face, he responded by showing how this cleric used the words "Allah" and "God" interchangeably.
3. I merely pointed out that his doing so in any Muslim country would likely get him executed. (In other words, we are the truly tolerant people. The vast majority of the world's Muslims -- especially the fundamentalist ones who read and believe the Koran -- as evidenced by the governments they run, are not the least bit tolerant of other faiths.)

In that exchange, I don't recall that I ever said anything which could lead anyone to believe that United States policy should be more like those of Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

[xm177e2]

These two repukes need to pay... with their careers. Unless they have evidence that this specific Muslim cleric is a radical in disguise, they should apologize or be railroaded out of the party.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

exactly where do you see Constitutional abuse in this scenario? These legislators didn't try to prohibit the guy from giving the prayer.

[Pompah]

When you climb down off your High Horse this afternoon. Or when you're knocked off by the sheer volume of the Rebuttals to your argument, go look in the mirror and you'll see what the "MINORITY VIEW" actually looks like.

[f.Christian]

PULLING THE PLUG (( firehat // code red ))

"The United Nations is a rectal threshold through which ill-mannered guests egress, but never go home."

"Any guest that treats you as discourteously in your own home --

deserves to get his . . . *** kicked (( link )) - - - all the way back to the Third World -

and possibly to the Fourth."

*** . . . my addition !

[Elsie]

I have ceased addressing all the Qu'ranic "scholars" we have here on FR, since I've found in every instance that the "translation" they depend upon is fallacious.

Well of course!!!!

---

They've told us for YEARS that the English translation of the Farsi script is fairly good....

"..as long as it's translated correctly."

[Illbay]

So, you are saying that the root of our little problem with radical Islamists is not Islam, but Marxists?

I'm saying our problem with terrorism is terrorists, whatever their stated goals.

As it happens, though many here are completely clueless of this fact, the PLO and the majority of Palestinian terrorists are not religious at all, but Marxist.

The IRA is not "Catholic," but Marxist.

Add to them the Shining Path in Peru, the FARC in Columbia, the ELN in Venzuela (each of which actually poses a more realistic long-term threat to U.S. interests, being in our "backyard" so to speak) all of which are Marxist, and the pattern becomes clear.

Recall the connection that has since been established between al-Qa'ida and Carlos the Jackal, the infamous Marxist assassin. There is FAR more going on here than a bunch of flea-ridden two-bit Muslim holy men with a wild look in their eyes. MUCH more.