Posted on 03/04/2003 2:34:57 AM PST by sarcasm
OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.
But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.
"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.
"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."
Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."
A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.
The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.
Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.
In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.
"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."
Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.
"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.
"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."
Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.
"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"
McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.
Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."
"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.
Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.
"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.
"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."
So if the people elect someone who believes that Jews ought to go to the ovens, they need to stand up for those "ideals"?
Again, that is an argument based not in logic, but if you keep stating it often enough, maybe it will come true. As I said previously, you could not be more wrong regarding what the constitution is. Both historical fact, the constitution itself, and common law (aside from some very poorly decided cases by some very partisan, activist judges) recognize the constitution as law. A law, by its definition, is a rule. An example of principles, would be the Declaration of Independance, which has no legal authority, but is persuasive authority as to the meaning of the constitution.
You do not seem to understand what you are arguing. Because of that, it is difficult to have a logical argument with you. If the constitution is merely principles, then no law should ever be overturned as unconstituional, as a law would have precedent over a set of principals.
Again, you make this argument because the actual wording of the constitution does not support liberal philosophies and positions. To get around that little roadblock, you attempt to make the constitution meaningless. Once enough people are persuaded that the constitution has no authority, but is merely "guiding principles", then any law can be passed (i.e., taking away people's property and re-distributing) without worry of being ruled "unconstitutional." That is why liberal consistently make arguments such as "its a living constitution" or its not what it says it is (i.e. law) it's just a set of "principles".
I suggest you re-read your constitution before debating about its meaning.
Far more than you are, I expect. I am a Republican like Pres. Bush, not David Duke.
So it sounds as though you want to emulate those that you despise.
I was taught to believe that grace and civility and common courtesy are worthwhile qualities to cultivate.
I still believe that.
Surely an intelligent man of the 21st century would look into a claim such as this, to see whether it is true.
After all, just look at how many converts there ARE the world over!!!
There's only one.
Does it really bother you that much that you live in an overWHELMingly Christian nation??? Sad.
Again, sorry for any confusion. (Thanks, biblewonk!)
Have you actually LISTENED to what Pres. Bush has been saying?
I think that Clinton should have been convicted, removed from office, and then tried in criminal court.
The above is part of the prayer.
It says, essentially....our God is ABOVE the Christian God, in that it says that Allah is the "god of Jesus."
Would the news media howl if I stood up and prayed, "And to Jesus who is God above all, God over allah."?
YOU bet they would.
I've been in the position before in military ceremonies where a non-Christian has prayed. Since I'm ordered to be at the ceremony, I do not have the option to leave. My attitude has always been not to assume my position of prayer. I do not bow my head. I do not close my eyes. Instead, I look around and see what others are doing.
I'm an adult and I realize there are other religions in America. That doesn't mean I have to behave as I do with my own religion.
Of course I have. And his statements about Islam being a religion of peace are laughable...I can understand why he might make them for political reasons, but they are widely ridiculed nonetheless...and rightfully so...the claim is ridiculous.
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