Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

If Secession Was Illegal - then How Come...?
The Patriotist ^ | 2003 | Al Benson, Jr.

Posted on 06/12/2003 5:58:28 AM PDT by Aurelius

Over the years I've heard many rail at the South for seceding from the 'glorious Union.' They claim that Jeff Davis and all Southerners were really nothing but traitors - and some of these people were born and raised in the South and should know better, but don't, thanks to their government school 'education.'

Frank Conner, in his excellent book The South Under Siege 1830-2000 deals in some detail with the question of Davis' alleged 'treason.' In referring to the Northern leaders he noted: "They believed the most logical means of justifying the North's war would be to have the federal government convict Davis of treason against the United States. Such a conviction must presuppose that the Confederate States could not have seceded from the Union; so convicting Davis would validate the war and make it morally legitimate."

Although this was the way the federal government planned to proceed, that prolific South-hater, Thaddeus Stevens, couldn't keep his mouth shut and he let the cat out of the bag. Stevens said: "The Southerners should be treated as a conquered alien enemy...This can be done without violence to the established principles only on the theory that the Southern states were severed from the Union and were an independent government de facto and an alien enemy to be dealt with according to the laws of war...No reform can be effected in the Southern States if they have never left the Union..." And, although he did not plainly say it, what Stevens really desired was that the Christian culture of the Old South be 'reformed' into something more compatible with his beliefs. No matter how you look at it, the feds tried to have it both ways - they claimed the South was in rebellion and had never been out of the Union, but then it had to do certain things to 'get back' into the Union it had never been out of. Strange, is it not, that the 'history' books never seem to pick up on this?

At any rate, the Northern government prepared to try President Davis for treason while it had him in prison. Mr. Conner has observed that: "The War Department presented its evidence for a treason trial against Davis to a famed jurist, Francis Lieber, for his analysis. Lieber pronounced 'Davis will not be found guilty and we shall stand there completely beaten'." According to Mr. Conner, U.S. Attorney General James Speed appointed a renowned attorney, John J. Clifford, as his chief prosecutor. Clifford, after studying the government's evidence against Davis, withdrew from the case. He said he had 'grave doubts' about it. Not to be undone, Speed then appointed Richard Henry Dana, a prominent maritime lawyer, to the case. Mr. Dana also withdrew. He said basically, that as long as the North had won a military victory over the South, they should just be satisfied with that. In other words - "you won the war, boys, so don't push your luck beyond that."

Mr. Conner tells us that: "In 1866 President Johnson appointed a new U.S. attorney general, Henry Stanburg. But Stanburg wouldn't touch the case either. Thus had spoken the North's best and brightest jurists re the legitimacy of the War of Northern Aggression - even though the Jefferson Davis case offered blinding fame to the prosecutor who could prove that the South had seceded unconstitutionally." None of these bright lights from the North would touch this case with a ten-foot pole. It's not that they were dumb, in fact the reverse is true. These men knew a dead horse when they saw it and were not about to climb aboard and attempt to ride it across the treacherous stream of illegal secession. They knew better. In fact, a Northerner from New York, Charles O'Connor, became the legal counsel for Jeff Davis - without charge. That, plus the celebrity jurists from the North that refused to touch the case, told the federal government that they really had no case against Davis or secession and that Davis was merely being held as a political prisoner.

Author Richard Street, writing in The Civil War back in the 1950s said exactly the same thing. Referring to Jeff Davis, Street wrote: "He was imprisoned after the war, was never brought to trial. The North didn't dare give him a trial, knowing that a trial would establish that secession was not unconstitutional, that there had been no 'rebellion' and that the South had got a raw deal." At one point the government intimated that it would be willing to offer Davis a pardon, should he ask for one. Davis refused that and he demanded that the government either give him a pardon or give him a trial, or admit that they had dealt unjustly with him. Mr. Street said: "He died 'unpardoned' by a government that was leery of giving him a public hearing." If Davis was as guilty as they claimed, why no trial???

Had the federal government had any possible chance to convict Davis and therefore declare secession unconstitutional they would have done so in a New York minute. The fact that they diddled around and finally released him without benefit of the trial he wanted proves that the North had no real case against secession. Over 600,000 boys, both North and South, were killed or maimed so the North could fight a war of conquest over something that the South did that was neither illegal or wrong. Yet they claim the moral high ground because the 'freed' the slaves, a farce at best.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: dixielist; zzzzzzz
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 2,101-2,114 next last
To: Capriole
Not belittle the suffering of anyone who was gang raped, but could you please explain to me how this act has implications [sic] that last until the present day?
81 posted on 06/12/2003 11:23:45 AM PDT by Melas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: bert
James Madison and Abraham Lincoln both observed that if a state can secede it can be expelled.
82 posted on 06/12/2003 11:28:34 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Grand Old Partisan
In poker there is no prize for second place ... the worst hand (( sucker )) to have is 2nd best (( good cards with no help too )) --- very seldom there are ties !

Twilight zone poker -- politics !
83 posted on 06/12/2003 11:39:53 AM PDT by f.Christian (( apocalypsis, from Gr. apokalypsis, from apokalyptein to uncover, from apo- + kalyptein to cover))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: f.Christian
Interesting post, but I miss your point.
84 posted on 06/12/2003 11:41:39 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Grand Old Partisan
2/3 rds majority wins -- takes the pot !
85 posted on 06/12/2003 11:42:48 AM PDT by f.Christian (( apocalypsis, from Gr. apokalypsis, from apokalyptein to uncover, from apo- + kalyptein to cover))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Grand Old Partisan
"...but I miss your point."

That's because you're stupid, as well as dishonest.

86 posted on 06/12/2003 11:49:23 AM PDT by Aurelius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: f.Christian
Or how about ...

the south had parity in the senate ---

no fancy shuffle or dealing was going to help the 'lost' cause !

I have smpathies in both directions !
87 posted on 06/12/2003 11:54:09 AM PDT by f.Christian (( apocalypsis, from Gr. apokalypsis, from apokalyptein to uncover, from apo- + kalyptein to cover))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: mdmathis6
That you rely on your clairvoyance to rationalize away 600,000 war dead and call it part of Gods plan makes me wonder if the God you worship is Mars.
88 posted on 06/12/2003 11:58:30 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Kingasaurus; Aurelius; stainlessbanner
The minute they do so, they are a foreign country with a foreign government (who fires the first shot, even!), and then the US Congress can legally declare war on them - occupy the land - and bring those states back in once the war is won.

If I'm not mistaken,,Congress did not declare war until 3 months after Lincoln had ordered the invasion of the South.

89 posted on 06/12/2003 12:00:03 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Kingasaurus; Aurelius; stainlessbanner
The minute they do so, they are a foreign country with a foreign government (who fires the first shot, even!), and then the US Congress can legally declare war on them - occupy the land - and bring those states back in once the war is won.

If I'm not mistaken,,Congress did not declare war until 3 months after Lincoln had ordered the invasion of the South.

90 posted on 06/12/2003 12:00:04 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Kingasaurus; Aurelius; stainlessbanner
The minute they do so, they are a foreign country with a foreign government (who fires the first shot, even!), and then the US Congress can legally declare war on them - occupy the land - and bring those states back in once the war is won.

If I'm not mistaken,,Congress did not declare war until 3 months after Lincoln had ordered the invasion of the South.

91 posted on 06/12/2003 12:00:04 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: billbears
ping
92 posted on 06/12/2003 12:01:51 PM PDT by Fraulein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: SCDogPapa
You are mistaken. Congress never declared war, which is an act taken against a foreign country not a domstic rebellion as was the Confederacy.

93 posted on 06/12/2003 12:03:04 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Grand Old Partisan
Well I was mistaken. I stand corrected. Thanks,,
94 posted on 06/12/2003 12:08:35 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: Grand Old Partisan
Well I was mistaken. I stand corrected. Thanks,,
95 posted on 06/12/2003 12:08:37 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: Grand Old Partisan
Well I was mistaken. I stand corrected. Thanks,,
96 posted on 06/12/2003 12:08:37 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: Aurelius
Is there anything in that article which does not fit the catagory of BS?
97 posted on 06/12/2003 12:14:14 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Poohbah
Note that the author of this bilge offers a homeschooling course. Unfortunately I fear he is representative of far too many who worship at that alter.
98 posted on 06/12/2003 12:16:36 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: SCDogPapa
Dang, dude, your "Post" button's on "BURST."
99 posted on 06/12/2003 12:18:28 PM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: ought-six
Those quotes are incorrect no matter their origin.

NONE of the founders agreed with those contentions. Not Washington, not Jefferson, not Madison, not Adams, not Hamilton, not Jackson. ALL abhorred the idea of splitting the Union. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
100 posted on 06/12/2003 12:19:01 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 2,101-2,114 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson