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Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]
Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

Posted on 07/09/2003 12:08:32 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: Onelifetogive
My point is that "one day" will not arrive until those who control funding and publishing allow people to question evolution without being called kooks, removed from graduate programs and stripped of funding.

Aw, come on. These evos are high-minded scientists. They don't have a biased bone in their bodies. Let me illustrate:

What a bunch of liars. "Liars for Christ", I call 'em.

4 posted on 07/09/2003 2:11 PM CDT by jlogajan

Perhaps those who question the basic idea of evolution have a political agenda, and if so, they ought to be upfront about it because right now they simply appear to be irrational.

8 posted on 07/09/2003 2:22 PM CDT by RightWhale

Creationism is a religious/political movement which threatens to marginalize the conservative movement

9 posted on 07/09/2003 2:25 PM CDT by Junior

These tend to be the same type of people who subscribe to Biblical Archeology and are fascinated by attempts to prove that biblical events actually happened.

46 posted on 07/09/2003 3:03 PM CDT by CobaltBlue

81 posted on 07/09/2003 1:43:09 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Junior
Do the kids have the necessary background and training to properly question the theory?

Most of the kids don't have the necessary background to read about the theory!

My point was that they should be taught to question theories in general. This one, in particular.

82 posted on 07/09/2003 1:43:11 PM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: js1138
Speaking of Muslim-bashing, I was very surprised to learn that some sects of Hasidic Jews, here in the United States, do not allow women to drive, or work outside the home, or go outside of the home with the head uncovered, or interact with men outside their own family members, and, in the event of divorce, the husband gets the children.

Shades of Saudi Arabia!
83 posted on 07/09/2003 1:45:49 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Never voted for a Democrat in my life.)
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To: CobaltBlue
I have to admit to being surprised at the number of evolutionist here. I would think evolutionist would be found at a site like DU. I don't say that out of spite, it just seems like a cause that would be associated with the left. If I just read what you said about evolution, I would assume you are a liberal Democrat.
84 posted on 07/09/2003 1:46:17 PM PDT by ACAC
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To: js1138
My point is that "one day" will not arrive until those who control funding and publishing allow people to question evolution without being called kooks, removed from graduate programs and stripped of funding.

So what are the relevant questions?

I don't know. The guy who would have formulated them was called a kook, removed from his graduate programs and stripped of his funding. All with your approval!

</literary license>

85 posted on 07/09/2003 1:46:45 PM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: Onelifetogive
My point was that they should be taught to question theories in general. This one, in particular.

I would agree, in general. What specifically would you have them question about evolution?

86 posted on 07/09/2003 1:46:54 PM PDT by js1138
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To: PatrickHenry
I'm not impressed ... another evo thread !

Creation - astronomy is physical science --- evolution is asstrology // autism ... CLEOS ---

trivia freaks // reality truth monsters (( brain rot - holes )) !

Patrick bolshevik soviet rand henry can't answer simple questions like ... did science exist prior to darwin --- for two years now !

Evolution is some kind of weird autism ... they know a lot about freaky imaginary things and how to pollute minds with their foolishness but the pratical everday reality eludes - BAFFLES them !

The funny thing is how this witch - gypsie science just adapts itself to everyone's weird sick personality ...

evolution is just so hyper - hypothetical --- even the impossible - bizarre is reality --- fact - proven !

87 posted on 07/09/2003 1:47:28 PM PDT by f.Christian (( bring it on ... crybabies // bullies - wimps - camp guards for darwin - marx - satan ))
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To: Onelifetogive

Once again, who is doing the questioning? Someone with only a layman's conception of the biology behind the theory, or actual researchers? If the former, I'm afraid you don't really have a case. If the latter I'm certain there would be any number of folks willing to foot the bill for the research.

However...

As Lenny Flank pointed out in his 1995 essay, Who are the Creation "Scientists?" that is often not a viable course of action for creationists:

[...]

The creationist movement also does not like to talk about the scientists who leave after being given the opportunity to do real field research. In 1957, the Geoscience Research Institute was formed in order to search for evidence of Noah's Flood in the geological record. The project fell apart when both of the creationists involved with the project, P. Edgar Hare and Richard Ritland, completed their field research with the conclusion that fossils were much older than allowed under the creationist assertions, and that no geological or paleontological evidence of any sort could be found to indicate the occurrence of a world-wide flood. (Numbers, 1992, pp 291-293) Hare concluded, "We have been taught for years that almost everything in the geological record is the result of the Flood. I've seen enough in the field to realize that quite substantial portions of the geologic record are not the direct result of the Flood. We have also been led to believe . . . that the evidence for the extreme age of the earth is extremely tenuous and really not worthy of any credence at all. I have tried to make a rather careful study of this evidence over the past several years, and I feel that the evidence is not ambiguous but that it is just as clear as the evidence that the earth is round." (cited in Numbers, 1992, p. 294) Ritland, for his part, pointed out that Morris's book The Genesis Flood contained "flagrant errors which the uninitiated person is scarcely able to detect". (cited in Numbers, 1992, p. 294) Ritland concluded that further attempts to justify Flood geology would "only bring embarrassment and discredit to the cause of God". (cited in Numbers, 1992, p. 293)

A few years later, creationist biologists Carl Krekeler and William Bloom, who taught creationist biology at the Lutheran Church's Valparaiso University in Indiana, left after concluding that a literal interpretation of Genesis was not supported by any of the available scientific evidence. Krekeler concluded, "The documentation, not only of changes within a lineage such as horses, but of transitions between the classes of vertebrates-- particularly the details of the transition between reptiles and mammals--forced me to abandon thinking of evolution as occurring only within 'kinds'. " (cited in Numbers, 1992, p. 302) Krekeler also criticized the creationist movement for the "dozens of places where half-truths are spoken, where quotations supporting the authors' views are taken from the context of books representing contrary views, and where there is misrepresentation." (cited in Numbers, 1992, p. 303) The two became theistic evolutionists, and later wrote a biology textbook which accepted evolutionary theory.

[...]

 

88 posted on 07/09/2003 1:48:55 PM PDT by Junior ("Eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and okay for you...")
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To: Onelifetogive
I don't know. The guy who would have formulated them was called a kook, removed from his graduate programs and stripped of his funding. All with your approval!

So this is a conspiracy theory.

I would be interested except that there are hundreds of Christian schools who would not behave this way, and there are dozens of organizations having access to funds.

89 posted on 07/09/2003 1:49:12 PM PDT by js1138
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To: f.Christian
You posts seem very angry and not very sane. What was that about murder? And what is a crip?

Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bossom of fools.
90 posted on 07/09/2003 1:50:29 PM PDT by Calpernia (Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: Calpernia
Sorry, I am trying my best to be as clear as possible.

I do believe that God created the universe, but I don't know how, and, for matters of scientific inquiry, don't think it matters. The First Cause is scientifically unknowable.

I don't believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis.

I believe that the universe is, as far as it is knowable, ruled by laws that can be determined through scientific inquiry.

I think Intelligent Design as it is presently formulated is a cop-out.

I think belief in God is irrelevant to cosmology, astronomy, physics, quantum mechanics, geology, biology, anthropology, archeology, genetics, etc., etc., etc.

The one thing I do reserve any opinion on is abiogenesis - I don't think there's sufficient evidence either way.
91 posted on 07/09/2003 1:52:16 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Never voted for a Democrat in my life.)
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To: Junior
That is a good post.

Most pre-college classes OVERALL, though, only give quick, layman's versions of everything. Otherwise you would never get out of high school ;)

College expands more on subjects.
92 posted on 07/09/2003 1:53:27 PM PDT by Calpernia (Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: LiteKeeper
Thank you. Now I can stop fumbling with my decoder ring. ;^)>
93 posted on 07/09/2003 1:54:58 PM PDT by Junior ("Eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and okay for you...")
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To: Calpernia; atlaw; CobaltBlue
marking my spot...I will do research on that tonight and see what I can find atlaw.
94 posted on 07/09/2003 1:55:43 PM PDT by Calpernia (Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: atlaw
Now, how do we go about finding out what the "four arguments" are?

I found this article, from the Austin American-Statesman, which lists the DI's four arguments (which I've bolded):

New force in the fray on state's textbooks

'Intelligent design' adherents use science to question evolution

By Melissa Ludwig

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Wednesday, July 9, 2003

As summer activities chase flagella and mitochondria from the minds of Texas schoolchildren, parents and interest groups are preparing to battle over biology textbooks.

Today brings the State Board of Education's first public hearing on the new books, continuing a decades-long battle over how Texas public school children are taught about the science of life on Earth.

If past years are any indicator, evolution, sex education and the origins of life will be the hot-button topics for parents and conservative groups who will testify before the board. But this year's arguments over evolution may swerve from the beaten path.

As traditional creationism has lost political ground in Texas, a national movement that embraces the concept known as "intelligent design" has gained influence by using science rather than religion to battle evolution. Intelligent designers believe certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained as the product of intelligent action, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Two senior fellows from the Discovery Institute, a nonprofit Seattle-based think tank that has led the intelligent design movement, will testify at today's hearings.

The institute scored a victory in December 2002 when, after much debate, the Ohio Board of Education adopted science curriculum standards that required the examination of criticisms of the theory of evolution.

Factual errors will be the focus of the institute's criticisms.

John West, assistant director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute, said the institute's intelligent design theories are not related to its position on evolution. West says evolution should be taught, but its discussion should include disagreements among biologists about aspects of the theory.

"If you are going to cover it, you need to cover it correctly," West said.

The institute has graded each Texas biology text up for adoption on the basis of four "icons of evolution" they say are inaccurate and misleading.

The institute picks each icon apart. For example, it cites problems with a 1953 experiment that produced organic molecules from a mixture of primordial gases. It also claims that fossil evidence of a sudden explosion of life during the Cambrian era (about 500 million years ago) poses a mystery that evolution can't solve. It argues that drawings of vertebrate embryos are regularly misrepresented and that photos of moths on tree trunks in England, a classic example of the workings of natural selection, were staged.

Bassett Maguire, a biology professor at the University of Texas, says there is truth to the institute's claims. The moths were staged, the embryos exaggerated. But Maguire says the examples don't matter as much as the concepts they teach, which he says are still valid. The icons represent flawed but nevertheless historic moments in science, and the concepts they illustrate have since been heaped with supporting evidence, Maguire said.

The institute has tried hard to publicly extricate itself from creationists and social conservatives who have besieged textbook hearings since the 1980s, most of whom believe that evolution is incompatible with a literal reading of the Book of Genesis in the Bible and that Earth is no more than 10,000 years old.

The Texas Education Agency definitively foiled efforts to get creation taught alongside evolution when they adopted new science education standards in 1997 with a requirement that all students learn the basic concepts of evolution. There is no requirement regarding creationism. Those standards form the basis for the state's new Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills, which 11th-graders must pass in order to graduate.

West said institute scientists are not creationists and are not associated with religious fundamentalists. However, The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that one of its major donors is Howard F. Ahmanson, a wealthy Californian who served on the board of directors for the Chalcedon Foundation, a think tank for Christian Reconstruction, a movement that seeks to replace democracy with a Christian theocracy.

West dismisses attacks on the institute for its motives. "Everyone has motives for everything. Science is about the evidence," West said.

But Eugenie Scott, Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education, says scientists such as William Dembski, Michael Behe and Jonathan Wells, all senior fellows at the institute, are not taken seriously by mainstream scientists. Scott and Maguire say work on intelligent design is not published in scientific, peer-reviewed journals.

The institute's interest in Texas is obvious. Texas is the second-largest purchaser of books in a multibillion-dollar market; California is first. In recent years, publishers have begun tailoring their books to appease interest groups on both sides of the debate.

In California ,the debate has tended to center on politically correct phrasing. Samantha Smoot of the Texas Freedom Network, a political watchdog group, says Texas is the other side of the California coin. Here, conservative and religious ideologies have made condoms and Cambrian fossils controversial, Smoot said.

"Concerns about how elderly people are depicted are the tip of the iceberg; the rest is in Texas, where accurate scientific and historical information and age-appropriate health education are at risk. We're not talking about world choices or window dressing," Smoot, who advocates the teaching of evolution, said.

Smoot says many members of the State Board of Education favor the kind of social conservatism propagated by groups such as the Eagle Forum, Texas Citizens for a Sound Economy and the Texas Pubic Policy Foundation. San Antonio millionaire James Leininger, who founded the Texas Public Policy Foundation, also funded many of the board members' campaigns in the 1990s, Smoot said.

Vance Miller, husband of State Board of Education member Geraldine "Tincy" Miller, serves on the foundation's board.

Because textbook rejections were being influenced by ideologies, the Legislature in 1995 halted the board's power to reject textbooks on the basis of anything except a factual error or a manufacturing defect.

Two years ago an environmental science text was rejected for the first time since the law went into effect. Smoot and board member Mary Helen Berlanga condemned the rejection as censorship, but the board majority insisted there were numerous factual errors.

Last year, publishers made several changes in response to complaints, including a reference to the Ice Age as occurring millions of years ago to taking place "in the distant past."

Though intelligent design theorists and creationists may be a minority in the scientific community, the most recent Gallup poll shows that nearly half the American public leans more toward creationism than evolution.

Research conducted by Kim Bilica, an assistant professor of science education at the State University of New York in Buffalo, indicated that science teachers across the state were not emphasizing evolution as much as the teachers would like..

"Given unlimited instructional freedom, in almost every single case they would prefer to emphasize evolution more than they had that last class year," Bilica said.

Clay Smith and Nicole Sorto, both biology teachers at McCallum High School, say the controversial nature of evolution affects how they teach it. Both try to accommodate children who say they are uncomfortable learning it.

Gladys Havel, a biology teacher at LBJ High School, said she uses supplemental materials more than the text when teaching evolution, although she says texts remain important .

"At home the kids have their textbooks to read over and reinforce the lesson," Havel said. Havel said when students bring up creationism, she tells them that they can believe whatever they wish and that evolution is merely an explanation for the changes in life forms. She also teaches them that all scientific theories are just that -- theories.

"Science is a constantly changing realm," Havel said. "There are not many things you can say are absolutely concrete."

mludwig@statesman.com; 445-3645

Intelligent design

What is it?

Popularized in the early 1990s, the intelligent design movement claims that the development of life can't be explained by natural selection. Though intelligent designers disagree among themselves about the history of life on Earth, most agree that life suggests the hand of some creator, rather than a series of developments governed only by the laws of nature.

Where is it based?

Center for Science and Culture, part of the Discovery Institute in Seattle.

On what grounds do proponents dispute evolution?

* In 1953, two scientists set out to show how life evolved by sending an electric current through a mixture of primordial gases and growing organic material. Later, it was discovered that the gases used in the experiment weren't the gases that composed Earth's early atmosphere. Based on the new findings, the scientists tried the experiment again, and it did not work. (Other scientists say similar experiments have succeeded, and there are other theories for origin as well, including hydrothermal vents and meteorites.)

* Fossils show a huge burst of life during the Cambrian era (about 500 million years ago), posing a challenge to evolutionary theory, which says that life forms developed over time. (The National Center for Science Education says the Cambrian era lasted millions of years and that intermediate life forms are detectable in fossil record.)

* A classic example of natural selection shows light-colored moths disappearing during the English Industrial Revolution because of pollution-blackened trees.Black moths, which were better camouflaged, survived. After the pollution was cleaned up, the example showed light-colored moths returning. Photos of moths on trees were later found to be staged.

If you go

What: State Board of Education public hearing on adopting new textbooks

Where: William B. Travis Building, Room 1-104

When: 1 p.m. today


95 posted on 07/09/2003 1:56:12 PM PDT by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: js1138
What specifically would you have them question about evolution?

Even if one accepts that species change from one thing to another, it is farmore difficult to explain where the first living thing came from, and how it was magically able to reproduce itself.

If life is so simple that it can occur spontaneously in a primordial soup, science should, by now, easily be able to demonstrate several simple mixtures that do the same.

96 posted on 07/09/2003 1:56:14 PM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: ACAC
>> If I just read what you said about evolution, I would assume you are a liberal Democrat.<<

You know what it says about people who assume, don't you?

It makes an ASS out of U and ME.

I don't mean that to be taken as mean and spiteful.

I don't think you can meaningfully generalize like that.

97 posted on 07/09/2003 1:56:36 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Never voted for a Democrat in my life.)
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To: LiteKeeper
ROFL! Do you just have that paragraph ready to cut and paste somewhere?

Man I would love to see what kind of database you have! (I'm an information geek)
98 posted on 07/09/2003 1:57:14 PM PDT by Calpernia (Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions.)
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To: Onelifetogive
My point was that they should be taught to question theories in general.

But since they can only truly question a theory from a position of knowledge, the point is moot.

This one, in particular.

Simply because it might gore a sacred cow or two does not mean it should be singled out for special treatment. If that were the case, I think quantum theory should be banished from school curriculums as it gives me pounding headaches.

99 posted on 07/09/2003 1:58:40 PM PDT by Junior ("Eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and okay for you...")
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To: Calpernia
I was going to say hell's angels intiation (( you have to commit a crime - murder )) but ...

I used the LA gang scenario --- they say " blood in - blood out " ...

you have to die to get out of the satanic bargain - cult !

Evolution too (( evos whack God - conservatives - ' creationists ' ))!

If they don't outrightly kill you ...

they use their venom - lies to paralyze --- dunb down - zombie up you ---

VAMPIRES !
100 posted on 07/09/2003 1:59:08 PM PDT by f.Christian (( bring it on ... crybabies // bullies - wimps - camp guards for darwin - marx - satan ))
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