Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[Calpernia]

In Kill a Mockingbird, cook? Housekeeper? Maid works for me. I have to read that again. It was a good book.

[Dataman]

They're at it again.

[Junior]

My very point. "Parts" are questioned. The whole is not.

There really is no one "Theory of Evolution." The "theory" is made up of several closely-related theories and these are what are being tested. Of course, results in any one of them reinforce or detract from the others. Biologists, anatomists, psychologists, zoologists, geneticists, botanists, paleontologists, anthropologists, whatnot all work from one or more theories of evolution and test against those. Of course, we are speaking mostly of the theory used by biologists (a change in allele frequency over time), but empirical evidence has been gathering for some time that this particular theory is right on the button. Still, biologists are out there testing day after day. One day, they may find something to replace the theory with, and this may or may not have repurcussions in the other scientific disciplines mentioned above, but until that day "evolution" is the best explanation going.

[Onelifetogive]

Until then, a few kooks will continue to cause various amounts of public education funding to be flushed down the toilet rather than used for education.

Teaching kids to question scientific theories is flushing money down the toilet, but the rest of the crap taught in public schools is not. You must be a DU disrupter!

[f.Christian]

Evolution clarvoyants have a source of science that is irrefutable ... gods in their own right --- fantasy worlds !

[CobaltBlue]

I do believe in theistic creation, but not Intelligent Design as it is presently formulated.

Saying "we don't know how it happened so God did it via special creation" isn't science.

The flaws in teleological arguments in biology are as follows - they are:
1. vitalistic (positing some special "life-force"); 2. requiring backwards causation (because future outcomes explain present traits); 3. incompatible with mechanistic explanation (because of 1 and 2); 4. mentalistic (attributing the action of mind where there is none); 5. empirically untestable (for all the above reasons). Teleological Notions in Biology

[f.Christian]

"best explanation going" ... from // to hell !

Darwinists are only programmed to see the lies ...

and deny -- obfuscate reality - truth !

Same as liberals --- hate // destroy God - science - conservativism !

[Onelifetogive]

One day, they may find something to replace the theory with, and this may or may not have repurcussions in the other scientific disciplines mentioned above, but until that day "evolution" is the best explanation going.

My point is that "one day" will not arrive until those who control funding and publishing allow people to question evolution without being called kooks, removed from graduate programs and stripped of funding.

[js1138]

A universe with consistent natural laws would be difficult to reconcile with a young earth. I someone wants to believe the universe was created with the appearance of a long history, I have no problem with that. But the nature we have available to study has a history of billions of years. That history, and the laws of nature that describe it, affect how we look at the present and the future.

There has been a lot of Muslim bashing here recently, and one of the prime jokes about Muslims is their constant reference to the will of Alah in themost minute details of life. Most Americans, and the majority of Christians believe miracles are rare and are unlikely to affect the outcome of scientific investigation. So science has a built-in bias against the assumption of miracle as the first choice choice to explain anything. In fact science has a rather aggressive tendency to assume that nothing is explained by miracles. This is not atheism; it is an attitude necessary in approaching hard problems.

[f.Christian]

You're going to need some peer reviewed psychology ...

try this ---

not man made science fiction (( designeduniverse.com )) !

[Calpernia]

may have to take my bump back. Now I don't understand you.

[Jeff Gordon]

You must be a DU disrupter!

Why are you ID Kooks so embarrassed by your god? I can not imagine how bad your self-esteem must be with your having to hide or deny your god.

[f.Christian]

Evolution is an intellectual exemption from truth- reality - sanity !

You have to pledge your soul for trivia via mantras ... murder !

Like the bloods - crips !

[Junior]

Do the kids have the necessary background and training to properly question the theory? Most pre-college biology classes simply give a quick, layman's version of evolution to their students. There really isn't enough information contained therein for a knowledgeable questioning of the actual science behind it. This is also one reason the creationists are fairly successful at their attempts to call evolution into question -- they are basically assaulting the watered-down "monkey" version (no pun intended) rather than the more complicated and involved models actually employed by working scientists. Hell, I've been studying this stuff for years and I find myself making elementary mistakes in our discussions on these threads. Fortunately, we here at FR are blessed with several working biologists (Nebullis, for instance) who really do know what they are talking about.

[js1138]

Teaching kids to question scientific theories is flushing money down the toilet, but the rest of the crap taught in public schools is not. You must be a DU disrupter!

Check out the Nobel prizes in physics. Many, if not most, have been awarded to folks who disrupted prevailing theories. Science award its highest honors to those who are first to find better ideas.

[atlaw]

"What can we, as evolutionists, do to assist the evolutionary side in Texas with this struggle? Suggestions, anyone?"


How about this? In the article it is stated: "The report also includes four arguments it says show that evolutionary theory is not as solid as presented in biology textbooks."

Not surprisingly, there is no identification or discussion of these "four arguments." If we can find out what the heck these arguments are, and craft a concise response to them that can be forwarded to the TX State Board, we might at least demonstrate that there are conservatives out there who disagree with the Creationist/ID agenda.

Now, how do we go about finding out what the "four arguments" are?

[js1138]

My point is that "one day" will not arrive until those who control funding and publishing allow people to question evolution without being called kooks, removed from graduate programs and stripped of funding.

So what are the relevant questions?

[LiteKeeper]

I am a retired Army officer (artillery, MI, and chaplain). I have the privilege of teaching several classes in Colorado Springs to high school, college, and adults on comparative worldviews (biblical vs secular). As I read the various threads, some impress me as good for illustrating different worldviews. So, using some Army terminology, I mark "incidents" as "SPOTREPS" (spot report) and "descriptions of the current world scene" as "SITREPs" (situation reports). INTREP (Intelliegence Report) provides information of an event involving those of the "opposition;" INTSUM (Intelligence Summary) provides more general information. When I get home, I download these SPOTREPs and SITREPs to a database for future use.

Does that help?

[CobaltBlue]

One of the things that is really funny about the Ten Commandments debate is that the people pushing the Ten Commandments probably have never actually visited the U.S.Supreme Court building.

If they had, they'd know that there are two friezes which have, as one of the elements, Moses holding the Ten Commandments.

As explained by the Curator on the SCOTUS website, the North and South Walls of the courthoom have a frieze which contains ALL of the following elements:

Menes (c. 3200 B.C.) First King of the first dynasty of ancient Egypt. He unified Upper and Lower Egypt under
his rule and is one of the earliest recorded lawgivers. Menes is shown in the frieze holding the ankh, an Egyptian
symbol for life.

Hammurabi (c. 1700s B.C.) King of Babylon credited with founding the Babylonian Empire. He is known for
the Code of Hammurabi, one of the earliest known legal codes. The first stone of the Code depicts him receiving
the law from the Babylonian Sun God.

Moses (c. 1300s B.C.) Prophet, lawgiver and judge of the Israelites. Mosaic Law is based on the Torah, the
first five books of the Old Testament. Moses is depicted in the frieze holding two overlapping tablets, written in
Hebrew. Commandments six through ten are partially visible.

Solomon (c. 900s B.C.) King of Israel and renowned judge. His name, meaning ?figure of the wise man,? has
become synonymous with ?judicial wisdom.?

Lycurgus (c. 800 B.C.) Legislator of Sparta. Lycurgus is credited with being one of the reformers of Sparta?s
constitution. He left Sparta after convincing the Spartan leadership not to change his laws until he returned,
but he never did.

Solon (c. 638?558 B.C.) Athenian lawgiver. He was appointed archon, an officer of state, and was charged
with remodeling the Athenian constitution in 594 B.C. He was instrumental in codifying and reforming Athenian
law, often revising the laws of Draco. His name has come to mean ?a wise and skillful lawgiver.?
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/north&southwalls.pdf

There are other historical figures on the East and West walls, and on the huge bronze doors.

Moses is also on the East pediment, which is outside and on the back of the building, flanked by Solon and Confucius, and several allegorical figures. In fact, Moses holding the two tablets of the Ten Commandments is the central figure in this frieze. I assume that the Justices come in through the back door and see this sculpture every day.
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/eastpediment.pdf

Really, all it takes is an honest effort to be fair about non-establishment.

[f.Christian]

We need a disclaimer on the FREE republic ...

danger migrating flying evo monkeys try to rule the roost here ...

check the tree republic --- vultures of the mind - body - soul of america !


Science NAZIS !

(( alpha vulture cap lock ah2 ))


They can smell the blood of a creationist - conservative ... it's psychic !