Alleged Irag Prisoner Abuses.....So what?? Who Cares??

New York Times, Washington Post, etc.... | 5/11/04 | GeorgeW23225

[GeorgeW23225]

This post is NOT politically correct. Those of you who adhere to politically correct posts may want to hide your eyes..........

I'm as mad as hell, and I'm NOT gonna take it any more!!

Am I sorry for the "alleged" Iraqi prisoner abuses?? NO!! I'm only sorry that the story and the photos leaked out.

Why should we apologize?? I'm STILL waiting for an apology from the Muslims for September 11th, the Khobart Towers, The USS Cole, Madrid, the murder of Daniel Pearl, and NOW the murder of Nick Berg. Why should we be "polite" and "politically correct" fighting EVIL??

We need to use an "eye for an eye" philosophy here. And the sooner, the better. A well placed, low yield nuke, perhaps, would do the trick. No more Mr. Nice Guy. These EVIL people only respect force, so I say "Let's bring it on!!" If some people in this country don't soon wake up and smell the evil, my fear is that one day, we'll wake up wearing burkas, and living in the 14th century. To hell with them all, and to their supporters and apologists around the world. If they want a "war", let's give them a "war" they'll never forget!!

If we continue being VERY polite, and VERY politically correct, we all all going to be VERY dead!!

I feel so much better, now that I've "vented" !!

[HOYA97]

Right on point! Military Solution or No Solution!

[Unam Sanctam]

Two wrongs don't make a right. I think the willingness of Freepers to justify the sort of disgusting sexual abuse and behavior of the MPs is chilling and indecent.

[TheCrusader]

"Why should we be "polite" and "politically correct" fighting EVIL??"

Because the liberals are the friends of evil.

[AntiGuv]

Tell us how you really feel, George! Personal anecdote: quite some while back there was a national event of enormous consequence that shall remain unnamed. I thought it quite intriguing that I seemed to react to it in a totally different way than it seemed most 'normal' people did. I remember wondering if I was really so far out of the mainstream or if the media just made it "look that way" etc, etc.. Anyhow, there was finally a poll taken on the matter right about that time and it turned out I was in a 9% fringe minority. I've never been the same since..

So, I just wanted to say welcome to the 9% fringe, George!*

*Though I'm definitely in the 79% supermajority on this one..

[GPBurdell]

Here's the problem I have with all of this: it will harm our ability to interrogate terrorists in Iraq.

There is a very clear line when that cannot be crossed when interrogating prisoners and these people crossed that line. They have brought unwarranted criticism and scrutiny to ALL of our men and women in uniform. The perpetrator should be and will be rounded up and dealt with harshly, but the fallout will be that our ability to extract information from these terrorists will be hampered.

We should show no mercy on the battlefield to those who mean to harm us and we must be firm and resolute in our interrogation of suspected terrorists, but we cannot abuse them.

Buzz in Lawrenceville

[MineralMan]

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

But three lefts do.

I guess the point is that we're agonizing as a nation over the prison abuse situation, and lots of folks just have no sympathy for anyone who is a Muslim right now.

For all of them, I suggest reading the entire book of Matthew.

Kill the terrorists. But all Muslims are not terrorists.

[maeng]

I said days ago that IMHO, we should not apologize and I stick to that.

[petro45acp]

here here!

Pig em

[GOP_Initiative]

I don't understand this whole "Why don't the Muslims apologize?" issue. The sick, horrible animals that kills innocent Americans in those cases listed above are not of any part of the nation of Islam. Do we expect Jordan or Egypt or Iran to apologize for something a group of disgusting radicals do?

[The Louiswu]

..."disgusting sexual abuse and behavior..."

If the pictures had been taken in the US and were hanging in an art gallery in San Francisco, the artist would no doubt be getting a large prize and many commissions for like work.

I am sorry, but animals deserve to be treated like animals and I am only sorry some GI's are gonna get stuck holding the bag.

[Ramtek57]

Muzlims cutting off peoples heads has been going on for 1500 years.

Anybody "shocked" by this brutal murder obviously doesn't know what we are dealing with.

Just wait until they start with the WMD in our cities.

They laugh at us over our concern about the prison "scandal".

They don't need a reason to chop somebody's head off.

Muzlims cutting off peoples heads has been going on for 1500 years.

Anybody "shocked" by this brutal murder obviously doesn't know what we are dealing with.

Just wait until they start with the WMD in our cities.

They laugh at us over our concern about the prison "scandal".

They don't need a reason to chop somebody's head off.

[The Louiswu]

"They must die, all of them, in the most horific ways we can imagine. By the thousands, by the millions, whatever."

YES!!!

[The Louiswu]

These islamo's want to raise the stakes, I say let them...we can raise them higher than they can. If they wanted war...they got it, we just need to make sure, GW finishes it.

[craig61a]

I don't think what was done was right, but this is a war and it is understandable. As for all the uproar over the abuses, I think it's been blown way out of proportion

[TheCrusader]

"Two wrongs don't make a right. I think the willingness of Freepers to justify the sort of disgusting sexual abuse and behavior of the MPs is chilling and indecent."

Nobody's "justifying" it, we are looking only to put it into its proper perspective, from whence it does not look nearly as bad as the liberals are trying to paint it for their political gain.

When you round a corner and see a large man slapping a woman in the face it looks like you've just stumbled upon a vile abuse. But had you rounded that corner five seconds earlier and you would have seen the woman spit on the man's face and kick him the scene suddenly does not look quite so bad. Perhaps this is not justification for her getting slapped by the much larger man, but it sure as hell clarifies things a bit. It's called PERSPECTIVE. But the liberal media don't want you see around the corner, they are happy to just report the slap, isolate it, and drum it into the public's head and carp on it ad nauseum.

The whole point is that if these liberal hypocrites are so appalled by the humiliation and relatively marginal abuse of Iraqi thugs, rapists, terrorists and murderers, then why the hell are they not utterly outraged and infuriated by the real torture, beheadings, executions and assassinations that the Islamofacists perpetrate against their POWs, Westerners and Christians?????????????????????????????

[k2blader]

For a "godless atheist", and on this issue, you've consistently come across as seeming more "Christian" than some of us who actually claim the Lord. It's pretty humbling as well as refreshing.

I believe the war on terrorism is the only right thing to do--it's either that or surrender, convert, and accept sharia. But *how* to best fight this war will naturally remain arguable.

[Blzbba]

"Do we expect Jordan or Egypt or Iran to apologize for something a group of disgusting radicals do?"


Yeah, really. That's like expecting the USA to apologize for the actions (or lack thereof) of the French, or maybe the Russians who were slaughtering innocent Chechens.

good point.

[MineralMan]

"For a "godless atheist", and on this issue, you've consistently come across as seeming more "Christian" than some of us who actually claim the Lord. It's pretty humbling as well as refreshing.

I believe the war on terrorism is the only right thing to do--it's either that or surrender, convert, and accept sharia. But *how* to best fight this war will naturally remain arguable."

That's very kind of you to say, but not necessary. The teachings of Jesus, as recorded in Matthew are probably the best guide ever written on how to behave with our fellow human beings.

Yes, we always must fight terrorism, whether it wears the swastika of Nazism or the star and crescent of Islam. We must fight, and we will always prevail.

But, in our battle, we must not lose sight of the ideals of this nation, which include the right of all people to worship as they choose.

Just as with Christianity, Islam has its holy wars. In my opinion, holy wars are wrong...every time.

If we are very, very lucky, we will prevail in Iraq and leave behind us a new nation, with a representative government and most of the ideals that underly our own nation.

If we are not so lucky, or if we lose sight of our American moral values, we will leave Iraq as the victors in the short term but with the hatred of people who follow the second largest religion on this planet.

We do not want to do that. Some here call for the annihilation of Islam. That simply is not going to happen. Indeed, many Islamic countries are trade partners, allies, and friendly to our nation.

We must attack the terrorists, but try to avoid attacking the religion of Islam. If we cannot do that, then we will surely fail in the long term.

That's not a liberal point of view. It is the point of view of Christianity. Jesus taught that we should not only forgive our enemies once or even seven times, but seventy times seven times.

We must defeat the terrorists, but not defeat our own principles in the process. If we do lose our ideals in this war, we have truly lost.

[Blzbba]

"2nd amendment, guns, a few 100 million armed americans, whatever"


Exactly why all the Chicken Littles on this site who fear that Islam will take over America are completely off their rockers. Their fearful insinuations that people like me will just roll over to some mythical fantasy of an Islamic invasion are downright insulting.

Besides, what Islamic military could possibly pull off such a coup? For that matter, how many Muslims are even in Congress?

[GeorgeW23225]

I belong to the world's smallest minority.
The individual !! And I don't take a "poll" before stating my opinion!!

What I said, needed to be said......

[GeorgeW23225]

I'm sure you meant "alleged" sexual abuse, didn't you??

[GeorgeW23225]

IMHO.......If this was a "conventional" war, I would agree. But, it isn't!!

This EVIL enemy doesn't wear a "uniform", and they don't play by the Geneva Convention rules and regulations. Why should we?? They ONLY respect power, so let's give it to them!!

[GeorgeW23225]

All Muslims may not be terrorists, but their outrage at the perversion of their religion, isn't exactly deafening, is it??

I'm sorry, but I just don't trust any of them!! At least not until THEY speak out!!

P.S. I recently had a "discussion" with 2 white women who claimed to be "converts" to Islam. They told me that Saddam Hussein did NOT kill 500,000 kurds. The said the U.S.A did. Seems like the blame America First crowd to me.....

[AntiGuv]

Hey, now! No need to get snippy!! =)

[GeorgeW23225]

Why aren't they screamimg about the perversion of their religion by the radicals?? Could it be because they are a part of the radicals??

[GeorgeW23225]

My fear is that you are correct. I wonder what Kerry would do?? Probably have them arrested, and appoint Johnny Cochran as their attorney!!

[GeorgeW23225]

"W" will finish it, if we let him !! That is why this election is so important. Just look in his eyes when he says we are going to stay the course. He means what he says, and says what he means. THANK GOD!!

[GeorgeW23225]

I couldn't have said it better myself!! Thanks for the post!!

[GeorgeW23225]

a Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim......
Who cares what "country" they come from!!

You'd better get a clue and soon!!

[GeorgeW23225]

I wasn't getting snippy. When I do, you'll know it!! :-)

[Blzbba]

"You'd better get a clue and soon!!"


Easy, Chicken Little, easy. You continue to live your life in irrational fear of what won't happen. I'll continue to not worry about a phony Muslim invasion.

I did note that you failed to address either question I posed: What Muslim army could possibly invade us and what Congressmen are currently Muslim (since defeat from within would best be aided by legislation).

The politics of fear and hatred don't work on me.

[Blzbba]

"I'm sorry, but I just don't trust any of them!! At least not until THEY speak out!! "



So why are you in favor of our troops dying for their freedom in Iraq?

Personally, for me it's not a matter of 'trust' - it's just that I honestly DO NOT CARE about the Iraqi people or any other oppressed Muslims.

I didn't care about them in March, 2003 or March 1993. Noone else here gave a damn either when Saddam was butchering and gassing them for the past two decades. So why are we supposed to be giving a damn about them now? Let them do their own overthrowing of the gov't and establishment of freedom.

If this whole military invasion of Iraq fails and costs Bush the election (or not), his biggest mistake won't be POW abuse or unfound WMDs. It will be caring for people that deserve none. We're wasting our time and lives in that hellhole for absolutely nothing.

[Rollee]

What about the MOAB? The gloves need to come off. I'm too angry to type correctly.

[GeorgeW23225]

What Muslim Army could possibly invade us??

You ARE kidding, aren't you?? Have you heard of Al-Queda, and do you remember September 11th, 2001??

As far as Congress is concerned, I don't think we give litmus tests to Muslims, but, perhaps we should.

I'm not Chicken Little, and no where in my posts do I express some paranoid belief of a Muslim invasion. However, I find it much better to fight them in Baghdad than in Brooklyn...........

[Blzbba]

" Have you heard of Al-Queda, and do you remember September 11th, 2001?? "


Yes and yes.


Simple math: A few hundred ass-backwards ragheads don't have an ice-cube's chance in hell of defeating the American military, here or abroad. Your suggestion to the contrary is laughable at best and insulting to the military at worst.

There's no Muslim navy or air force that could possibly harm us in any major way.

And the Muslim people aren't worth American lives, sorry.


"I don't think we give litmus tests to Muslims, but, perhaps we should. "


I knew we'd agree on something! :)

[GeorgeW23225]

I'll try this just one more time.........

I did NOT post any paranoid comments saying that we were going to be overwhelmed in the USA by the radical/fundamentalist/terrorist/muslims.

However.......you show a naiveté that is staggering beyond belief!! There are 1,500,000,000 muslims in the world, not just a few hundred ragheads. They used "OUR" planes and attacked us, AND they sure must have boats to use, or was the attack on the USS Cole, and the attack 2 weeks ago on the Oil Platform, just my imagination??

I'm not saying that our Military can not defeat them, but your posts show an incredible lack of respect for a very, very dangerous evil enemy.......Can we defeat them?? Yes !! Will it be easy?? No !! And if you think it will be easy, you must still believe in the Tooth Fairy !!

[sultan88]

"Am I sorry for the "alleged" Iraqi prisoner abuses?? NO!! I'm only sorry that the story and the photos leaked out."

In solid agreement. Especially when these photos and the Taguda (SP?) report were evidence in the Army's investigation of the MP's. These things didn't just leak out. They were "planted" by certain people with a specific agenda. Even if that agenda results in compromising a criminal investigation, the deaths of more American military personnel, the distruction of American cities, and losing the War on Terror. I am angry, too!

[Blzbba]

"I did NOT post any paranoid comments saying that we were going to be overwhelmed in the USA by the radical/fundamentalist/terrorist/muslims. "


In fairness to you and this thread, I retract that statement and apologize for calling you "Chicken Little". I was wrong.


"There are 1,500,000,000 muslims in the world,"

Most of which are harmless.


".. not just a few hundred ragheads. They used "OUR" planes and attacked us, AND they sure must have boats to use, or was the attack on the USS Cole, and the attack 2 weeks ago on the Oil Platform, just my imagination?? "


The attack on the Cole was made by suicide morons on a RUBBER LIFE RAFT. The oil platform attack was made by a jon boat. Why a single sailor on the Cole didn't open fire on that bathtub of a boat is something I've never understood, but an M-16 would've stopped that attack. Sorry, but neither of these attacks frightens me.


"I'm not saying that our Military can not defeat them, but your posts show an incredible lack of respect for a very, very dangerous evil enemy......."


dangerous, yes. Technical? No. Numerous? No. Intelligent? No. Ass Backwards? Yes.


"Can we defeat them?? Yes !! "

Once more, we're in agreement.

"Will it be easy?? No !! "

Not if we continue to withdraw from the Fallujahs of this conflict.


"And if you think it will be easy, you must still believe in the Tooth Fairy !!"

Implying that I have all my original teeth - thanks!


Serious question, George - what do you propose we do to win this WoT? Can we kill enough Muslims to actually win, or would that only create more Muslime terrorists? We've certainly seen that killing lots of 'em (30,000+ so far in the WoT) hasn't seemed to stop the creation of terrorists. So what do we do - kill ALL of them? Is that even possible? I'm not grilling you personally here - I just don't know what course of action to take that would ultimately result in a Final Solution to this conflict - do you?

P.S. You can't nuke all of 'em.

[Blzbba]

BTW George, there's something I forgot to mention earlier:

"Am I sorry for the "alleged" Iraqi prisoner abuses?? NO!! I'm only sorry that the story and the photos leaked out. "


I am in complete agreement. I still don't give a damn about the Iraqi people or their freedom. I want to know which military personnel leaked this crap to a slobbering liberal press to get this whole sh*t sandwich made in the first place? People here want to blame the libbie press, which is fine, but remember that one of our troops either idiotically allowed the press to take the pics or leaked the pics to them.

[firsttadpole]

how shameful the world has become in that we cant love one another and care for others. God created all people equally. You asked the question, who cares, well I can tell you that if nobody else in the world cares, God does. I don't think we are wasting our time in trying to help iraq become a better place. I truly hope you can one day realize how much God loves ALL His children, no matter the color, race, or origin. God loves us all and He loves you to.

[firsttadpole]

there shouldnt have been any leakage from the beginning because the abuse should have never happened in the first place. abusing and humilating those prisoners was wrong and only makes us americans look the same as all the other evil nations around us. which gets you closer to someone, abusing them or loving them?

[Blzbba]

"how shameful the world has become in that we cant love one another and care for others. God created all people equally. You asked the question, who cares, well I can tell you that if nobody else in the world cares, God does. I don't think we are wasting our time in trying to help iraq become a better place. I truly hope you can one day realize how much God loves ALL His children, no matter the color, race, or origin. God loves us all and He loves you to."


What I think and feel matters not at all on issues as large as Iraq. I'd rather focus on raising my children and being a good husband for my wife and provider for my family, for those are the only few things I can really make a difference at.

[firsttadpole]

I disagree. We all can make a difference in the world, with the problems in iraq, the same sex marriages, the homeless, etc. We can make the difference but not by ourselves, We have to depend upon God to help us. Look what a difference Jesus made. He gave His life that we could have life and have it more abundantly. If we all pulled together and brought prayer back into our lives, we could see miracles take place.
I'm glad though that you are trying to be a good husband, father and provider but dont sell yourself short by saying thats the few things that you can do.

[jhacker]

You all seem to have forgotten the U.S. Constitution is your ramblings. If we start proposing loyalty tests for immagrants based on religion we would be defiling one of the most sacred premisses of the bill of rights. You all are frightening whats next expel all non-christian from America turn us into a fundamental theocracy.

[GeorgeW23225]

I would reply to your pandering, kiss-ass, muslim sympathizing post, but it is so poorly written, and so poorly reasoned, I haven't the time........